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Quick poll: More gifted athlete–Deion Sanders or Bo Jackson?
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Does being able to play two professional sports, and not being all that good at one of them (Neon was not a good baseball player) make someone a better athlete than one who is truly great at one sport?
No matter, even if you hadn’t provided choices and just ask the general question who is teh best athlete to play MLB since the 1980s, I would have picked Bo Jackson.
I agree on Jim Thorpe, but since no one alive saw him compete, it is hard to really know how gifted he truly was. BTW, his career OPS+ is 99, so his hitting wasn’t horrible and honestly, he never really got a shot at playing full time (most games was 103 in 1917) and of course, the dead ball era really messes with his stats, so it is hard to analyze them (in 1918, his slashes were .248/.286/.381 and his OPS+ was 103)
It’s true that no one around now saw Thorpe perform, but we don’t disregard (well, most of us don’t) Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, Honus Wagner and Larry Lajoie when discussing the all-time great MLB players, for that reason.
Besides, there were many writers around then who DID see Thorpe, and we have their observations to go by (as imperfect as that is). Plus, there’s that decathlon he won in the 1912 Olympics.
John, It’s always hard to compare the older guys with recent ones. I mean, Bo’s 16-year-old decathlon times and distances shatter Thorpe’s mature ones. Okay, such a comparison obviously is unfair, but in Bo’s case you’re talking about a guy who at the state HS level would lead the decathlon by so much he wouldn’t have to run the final event, the mile, which he hated; a guy who after a few tutorials in the javelin and shot put was posting state-qualifying distances; a guy, basically, who competed in and dominated the decathlon just because he could, not because he… Read more »
Bo, without a doubt. Deion could run and broke on a thrown football better than any defensive back I have ever seen, but he couldn’t tackle or block or do any of the other things a football player is expected to do. Bo knew tackling and blocking, as well as anything else a football player is expected to do. Neither was a polished baseball player, but Bo did things on a baseball field I have never seen anyone else do. Brian Jordan was a pro bowl caliber football player and was a better baseball player than either one. I don’t… Read more »
Editor
Found these comments about Dave Winfield.
– he never played in the minors
– drafted by both the Atlanta Hawks and the Utah Stars
– even though he never played a single down in college, the Vikings selected him in the 1973 draft
– No other athlete has ever been drafted in all three pro sports
It’s a big question whether Winfield could have made it in the NBA, let alone become an All Star, as a 6-foot-6 ‘tweener who specialized in rebounding. He’d even have had less of a chance, I’d guess, in the pre-pass whacky NFL, though today he’d be a perfect tight end, a la Antonia Gates and Jimmy Graham.
The only thing about Deion is that he was basically just speed and spatial awareness/hand eye coordination, whereas Bo brought all of that plus ridiculous strength. On the football field Deion was known for being a poor tackler and never flashed much power with the bat (sub-.400 slugging, and that’s even helped by his big triples numbers) whereas Bo was a pummeling RB and was known for his tape measure jacks.
While I agree that he was a considerably better football player, Deion probably could have developed into a pretty good baseball player if he’d dropped football to focus on it. In 92/93 he played 192 games for the Braves with a 118 OPS+ with 45 steals and 20 triples while playing a solid center field.
Of course, if he’d never played baseball he might have learned how to tackle and become the greatest CB of all time, so, you know.
Editor
Just my opinion, but — In Deion’s best year, ’92, over half his hits were infield hits; his career rate was 25%. If you chop his infield hits in half, which still leaves him with a high rate, his career BA drops from .263 to .230. His RBI rate was horrible, because infield hits and outfield singles don’t drive in many runners. Even his Runs rate was unimpressive, since he didn’t walk or get extra-base hits. He never scored 60 runs, nor drove in 30. Even projecting his stats out to 700 PAs per season, he averaged 93 Runs and… Read more »
Bo Jackson was better without question, in my opinion. He was an All Star in both sports. Considered by many, one of the most exciting football players in his prime, too bad an injury cut short his football career. On the baseball side, he had tremendous power an an incredible throwing arm. I still like to watch those highlights when he ran on the wall in Baltimore(?) or when he threw Harold Reynolds out at home plate with a perfect throw from left field in Seattle. Amazing athlete.
Bo is one of the ultimate “what if” athletes. He split his time playing baseball and football in college, and when drafted by the Royals was considered one of the most gifted prospects in a generation, perhaps ever, yet still quite raw. After a short time in the minors, he was rushed to the majors, perhaps in fear by the Royals they’d lose him completly to football once he re-entered the NFL draft. Not sure. He would have benefited greatly from more time in the minors, as well as playing in the fall leagues, and getting back the ABs he… Read more »
Not even close – Jackson was a fast as Sanders and 40 pounds heavier. Obviously, Jackson was a helluva whole lot stronger. A NYY scout had Jackson as the highest rated prospect he had seen for foot speed, arm strength, and power since Mickey Mantle. I’m sure Sanders also is losing points in this whole debate on the basis of being somewhat disliked by quite of few of us. When asked by esteemed bow-tie wearing, Washington Nationals’ fan and Princeton student George Will who he believed to be the greatest basketball player he had ever seen, Butch van Bredakoff responded,… Read more »
Gene Conley @12 above. I’m not sure, but I think he’s the only person to play in the World Series and the NBA Finals—on the winning side, too. He was a three-time All Star, twice for Milwaukee, once for the Phillies, and a role-player on several Celtic championship teams in the Cousy-Russell era.
Certainly the best pitcher who did well as a pro in another sport. The best MLB player in the NBA? Danny Ainge, unless I’m forgetting someone.
Richard Chester will correct me, if I’m wrong.
Yes, nsb, I’m pretty sure you’re correct about Conley. Tim Stoddard played in both the World Series and the NCAA basketball championships. I think he won a game in the ’79 Series but the Os fell to the Pirates, and at NC State he won the ’74 NCAA title, though due far less to his efforts than those of David Thompson and, probably, those (i.e. the questionable recruiting practices) of Norm Sloan. Stoddard’s same East Chicago, IN high school also produced Kenny Lofton, who is the only other player to play in a WS and an NCAA Final Four. Must… Read more »
Actually the best MLB player in the NBA would be Dave DeBusschere who’s in the basketball HOF and was named as one of the 50 best players in NBA history. His MLB career was short but it looks like he could have been a very good pitcher if he had stuck with baseball. Career ERA+ of 124 in 102.1 innings, pitching as a 21 and 22 year old.
Here you go…Howard averaged 17.4 points and 14.4 rebounds per game for Ohio State. He still holds the OSU record for most rebounds in a game with 32.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_State_Buckeyes_men's_basketball
There are quite a few baseball players who excelled in college football including Harry Agganis, George Stirnweiss, Eric Tipton, Sam Chapman, Vic Janowicz, Paul Giel, Ernie Nevers and Ace Parker. Some of them like Stirnweiss and Chapman had some good years. Agganis tragically died in his second year. Parker quit the game and went on to become a pro football HOFer.
Kirk Gibson. He was sure to be a high NFL pick among wide receivers, or maybe even overall, but his senior year he decided to play baseball also, and based on that one year performance the Tigers drafted him and the rest is history. I was on the MSU JV team at the time and saw this unfold. The guy was a stud in all respects. And there was also this skinny fellow with a big smile taking the college basketball world by storm the same year, and that’s a whole nother story. It was quite a year to be… Read more »
Jim, A lot of people don’t realize the package of speed and power that Gibson was. He may have been the fastest white football player of his generation, and as you said was a stud in every respect. I covered him when he as at Evansville and he was a monster in the making. Gibson almost posted 30 HR / 30 SB seasons several times but always just fell short. I think Bo’s career was paralleling Gibson’s before Bo’s injury. They both struck out a lot early, but improved markedly with each passing season. Bo’s OPS+, as MikeD pointed out… Read more »
tag, very cool that you got to see Kirk in his early years when he was quite the raw phenom. Re “monster in the making”: some folks tried to pin “the next Mickey Mantle” label on him. I don’t know how that affected him. He has a very good head on this shoulders, very grounded, but when you’re only 19,20 years old, things like that can of course affect you. I also respect the fact that he decided not to try to be Bo Jackson #2 when he was considering trying to play some pro football at one point. He… Read more »
Editor
School-ties posturing aside, Kirk Gibson was quite a specimen when he reached the Tigers, but unbelievably raw. His misadventures in the outfield became legendary — as I recall, he had a ball bounce off his head and out of the park long before Canseco made that his signature move. The most eye-popping athletic thing I ever saw Gibby do was in a 1983 game that I watched from the CF bleachers. With Whitaker on 1st and 1 out, he drove one over the CF’s head. Lou didn’t get a great jump, and by the time he reached 3rd, Gibby was… Read more »
According to this article, Gibson’s earlier homer was 523 feet. And they mis-identify the catcher:
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-03-27/sports/sp-446_1_kirk-gibson
Here’s a great description pf the play:
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/plays-at-the-plate/
Bo was the goods. I have never seen anyone like him before and doubt anyone will every see his likes again.
Deion was great, but don’t sleep on Brian Jordan. While he played for teams I despise, he was a damn good baseball player and football player.
As for old time guys, my knowledge begins and ends with Joe Thorpe, sort of the Bo Jackson of his time.
And then there was Charlie Berry. He was selected by Walter Camp for his All-American football team, played in the NFL and in the ML. He later became a baseball umpire and an NFL head linesman. In 1958 he umpired in the WS and was the head linesman for the NFL title game between the Colts and the Giants. He probably was the only guy to officiate in a WS and an NFL title game.
As long as we’re going ancient—like you and me, RC—I’ll drop the name of George Halas, a three-sport star at Illinois and MVP of the 1919 Rose Bowl playing for Great Lakes Naval Training Station. He came up briefly with the Yankees late that year, broke his hip, and subsequently turned his focus to football as a player, coach, and owner, coincidentally helping to found the NFL, in an iconic career that lasted over sixty years. He was All-Pro as a player, outstanding as a coach, winning his first pro championship in 1921 and his last in 1963, with a… Read more »
Here’s the video of Deion Sanders as a Florida State freshman attempting to tackle Bo Jackson. I’m not sure if it’s this commentary or not but I heard him somewhere describe the stiff-arm shiver that Bo gave him at the 10-yard line as a “sit DOWN, young man” kind of play:
“Gifted athlete” is sort of a nebulous category, but I will say this: Deion Sanders actually played a sport at a Hall of Fame level (he may be the greatest defender of WRs footabll ever saw), while all of Bo’s incredible raw skills never added up to a particulary great career in either sport. Yes Bo was as impressive a RB as we’ve seen (5.4 yards a carry, several 70+ yard runs), but he never rushed for even 1,000 yards in a season, got close only once. He simply did not do enough to make the football HOF, while Deion… Read more »
It’s kind of late in the string of comments to raise this, but I will—what the heck. Opinion: If you can excel at baseball, at least as a position player, you’re likely to have skills that make you capable of excelling at other sports. Excelling at football, basketball, swimming, track events, soccer, golf—most often these are focussed and narrow endeavors compared to those required in baseball. I can see Mantle and Mays as great running backs. I can see Ted Williams at end or forward. I can’t see Tiger Woods or pick almost any name you like (I admit some… Read more »