Sunday game notes takes you back to 2003…

@Yankees 6, Rays 5GTFOOH! The Captain homered on the first pitch he saw from Matt Moore, and Alfonso Soriano’s 4th hit of the game won it in walk-off style, turning Hideki Matsui Bobblehead Day into an Old-Timers’ shindig.

 

Jeter’s clout snapped their 9-game tater famine, and sparked a 3-run 1st inning that matched their season high. Moore came in off a 2-hit shutout and a 6-start win streak, and he hadn’t allowed a HR in 7 games. But the Yankees knocked him around for 8 hits and 5 runs in 5 IP. Phil Hughes would give back the first lead on a Wil Myers 3-run hanger-banger to left. But then Jeter beat out a grounder, and Soriano delivered his first Yankee HR since game 2 of the 2003 Series, just past Myers’s glove, putting New York back on top. Hughes gave up that lead, too, when Myers parked one the other way starting the 5th. Hughes finished with 4 IP, 5 runs, 9 hits, 2 walks, and lucky to get away tied.

  • In the 9th, with Gardner on 2nd and no outs, Jeter was intentionally walked … bringing up Robinson Cano … who fanned on 3 pitches, watching strike three from lefty Jake McGee. Cano’s clutch performance is another discussion, but it’s hard to imagine any other current Yankee being passed in front of Cano in that spot.
  • Jeter’s HR was their first in the 1st inning since July 1. They’d gone 6 games scoreless in the first 2 frames.
  • Ichiro notched his 50th four-hit game, and first of this season. He’s the 17th with 50 searchable 4-hit games. For age 27-39, only Ty Cobb (55) and George Sisler (54) had more. Pete Rose had 49 for that age range, and a searchable record of 73 overall.
  • You may disagree, but I find this Wil Myers “I gotcha” bat-flip more than a little provocative. Would it be a surprise if some foe should express umbrage in a physical manner? I see that he hasn’t been hit by a pitch yet….

__________

@Dodgers 1, Reds 0 (11 inn.) — Well, sure … but did a shower of sparks rain down on the left-field pavilion? Yasiel Puig’s home run with 2 outs in the 11th secured L.A.’s longest shutout win ever against the Reds, and their 9th win in 10 games built their NL West lead to 2.5 games. It’s the latest walk-off HR for a 1-0 win in L.A. Dodgers history; they’ve had three in the 10th inning, all since 2002.

Scoring chances were scarce all day. Cincy’s Tony Cingrani fanned 11 in 7 innings and yielded one hit — to opposing starter Chris Capuano, who was 0-for-13 this year. The Reds got just 3 hits off Capuano (who worked into the 7th), and none afterwards. Devin Mesoraco led off the 6th with a double off Capuano and reached 3rd, but he was cut down easily on a grounder to 3B Juan Uribe, and Joey Votto’s leadoff double in the 7th went nowhere. Shin-Soo Choo pinch-hit for Cingrani in the 8th and was hit by a pitch for the 22nd time this year (2 shy of the Reds’ record); he stole 2nd with 2 outs, but died there. Puig drew a leadoff walk in the 7th, but was picked off by Cingrani. Uribe doubled with 2 outs in the 8th, the first Dodger to 2nd base, but he was stranded by yet another whiff.

  • The Dodgers struck out 20 times, a searchable franchise record for both Reds pitching and Dodgers hitting.
  • Four Dodgers fanned 3 times, also a club searchable record.
  • Losing pitcher Curtis Partch had a string of 7 hitless innings snapped.
  • Here’s the longest searchable “shutout” for each against the other — a 19-inning tie.

__________

@Marlins 3, Pirates 2 — Career-high 13 Ks for Jose Fernandez (no walks), and his 10th straight game of 3 runs or less. Fernandez allowed 2 runs in the 2nd, but then began rolling, fanning 10 of the next 13 batters and yielding 2 singles from the 3rd through 8th innings. Gerrit Cole was good for the Bucs, but Giancarlo made another desert-island delivery, breaking a tie in the 6th. Steve Cishek came on for the 9th, although Fernandez only had 97 pitches, and he put two on before sealing the deal.

  • Three days from his 21st birthday, Fernandez stands 7-5 with a 2.71 ERA, and 13 quality starts in 20 outings.
  • At 40-63, Miami now projects under 100 losses. They’re 25-22 since June began.

__________

Red Sox 5, @Orioles 0 — Jon Lester put up 7 zeroes in his first scoreless outing since his May 10 one-hitter, and David Ortiz kept calm and lumbered on with a HR and 4 hits, as Boston won the rubber game and slipped back atop the AL East. Jason Hammel gave up 3 runs (and 11 runners) in 5.1 IP, and has not won in his last 10 starts. Baltimore got 5 singles, 2 walks, and went hitless with RISP.

  • Chris Davis moved up to the #3 spot for the 3rd time this year, but his slump only deepened (0-4, 3 Ks). Since June began, Davis has 80 strikeouts and 12 walks in 51 games, hitting .251 to cut 52 points off his season average (.356 to .304).
  • Lester is now 15-2 against the O’s, but the Sox hadn’t won in his last 5 starts against them.

__________

Royals 4, @White Sox 2 (12 inn.) — Alex Gordon shrugged off an 0-5 day with a 2-run HR in the 12th, leading the Royals to a 6th straight win with the help of 6 scoreless relief innings. But Gordon was only the second star. Jarrod Dyson started that 12th with a hit and swiped 2nd, taking 3rd on a bad throw. And none of it could have happened without Dyson’s textbook play in the 10th, cutting down pinch-runner Blake Tekotte at the plate to end the inning. Dyson charged all-out and gloved the skimmer in stride to come up throwing, then laid a one-hop strike in his catcher’s mitt. Salvador Perez almost waited too long on the tag, but he got there — no matter what Alexei Ramirez thought.

  • K.C. slouched to the Break on 5 losses, but the streak has them back at .500 for the first time since June 17.

__________

@Tigers 12, Phillies 4 — If their 7-game skid left any doubts about whether the Phils should be deadline sellers, the 6th inning of #8 should resolve them. Playing without Miguel Cabrera again (for a different reason), Detroit scored 8 runs on 2 hits in the 6th, just one hit past the infield. A walk, a thrown-away dribbler, and Ramon Santiago’s 2nd bunt hit of the game filled the sacks with no outs (for the 3rd time), and Don Kelly’s sac fly to left was dropped by rookie Steve Susdorf. The next reliever forced in a run with a 4-pitch walk, and Fielder grounded to 1st, but reached on the inning’s 3rd error. An 11-pitch trip for V-Mart ended in another RBI walk, and on 2-and-0, Jhonny Peralta slammed to left.

Miggy was tossed in the 3rd, while batting with bags full and 1 out, for arguing after two called strikes, and Jim Leyland followed suit. Detroit wasted that no-out threat, after Prince Fielder had ended the 1st with a 2-on DP. Their 4th had 2 on, no outs, but also died in a DP. Each time, Philly scored in their next frame, building a 3-0 lead. The Tigers finally broke through on 4 straight hits to start the 5th, tying it up with 2 RBI groundouts. Fielder would DP again in the 8th, completing an 0-5 nightmare with 12 men on base.

  • Susdorf earlier doubled for his first career hit, and scored. The minor-league veteran was hitting .335 at triple-A. His older brother, Billy, played 3 years in the Padres’ system.
  • The Phillies’ Jake Dietman and rookie Luis Garcia each allowed 4 runs in the 6th, all unearned. Garcia faced 4 and retired none; he’s the 4th in the expansion era with an outing of 4+ runs, no earned runs, and R=BF. (The last with more than 4 runs in that scenario was Ramon Monzant, on 1958-06-28.)

__________

@Indians 6, Rangers 0 — Ubaldo Jimenez stopped Texas on 2 hits for 8 innings, and 2-out RBI hits in the 6th by Yan Gomes and Michael Bourn widened a slim lead. The Tribe have won 4 straight, and with a sweep they moved past Texas in the wild card race, within a game of the Orioles.

  • Jimenez has gone 8 innings twice for Cleveland, both in the last 2 months. His 2.97 ERA in that time has helped the team to an 8-3 record behind him, while trimming his year’s mark to 4.17, the lowest since his first game this year.
  • Texas was shut out twice in a row for the first time in 4 years, and the first time since 2004 by one opponent. They’ve lost 12 of 15, averaging 2.4 runs. They’re 22-29 since June began, outscored by 231-179, or 4.5 to 3.5 per game.
  • Cleveland regained the MLB lead with their 14th shutout — their most since 1976, and as many as their last 3 years combined.

__________

Padres 1, @D-backs 0 — Patrick Corbin allowed 1 run for the 4th straight game, but Tyson Ross made that 1st-inning tally stand up with a career-best outing of 8 scoreless innings, on 3 hits and a walk. Corbin went unsupported for the first time this year and fell to 12-2, though shaving his ERA to 2.24. The Pads gained their first 1-0 victory in over a year.

With 2 outs in the opening frame, Chase Headley tripled to straight-away center, and Carlos Quentin found the 5/6 hole for the only run. The Snakes had a great chance in the 3rd, starting with Cliff Pennington’s triple, but Ross got a shallow fly from Corbin, then a groundout and one of his 7 Ks. Their only other RISP chance came with 1 out in the 5th, but Pennington and Corbin both whiffed.

__________

Cubs 2, @Giants 1 — Travis Wood homered and singled for half the hits off Tim Lincecum (10 Ks), and allowed only an unearned run over 7 innings, tying the MLB lead with his 18th quality start in 21 outings. Wellington Castillo broke the tie in the 7th with a 2-out crusher to left. The Giants have lost 7 of 8, scoring 14 runs, to fall 12 games under .500, alone in the NL West cellar.

  • Wood leads all pitchers with 3 HRs, 8 RBI and 7 runs.
  • Wood’s trademark is his consistency. His monthly ERAs are 2.25, 3.15, 3.06, 2.61.

__________

@Mariners 6, Twins 4 — Rookie Nick Franklin drove in 4 with 2 HRs, as Seattle salvaged a series split. Franklin has 10 HRs and 32 RBI in 52 games, and joins:

  • … Bret Boone, as the Mariners second basemen with two multi-HR games in a season.
  • … Jose Cruz, Jr., as the Mariners with two multi-HR games within their first 52 games.
  • … Alvin Davis, Cruz, and Danny Tartabull, as the M’s with 30+ RBI in their first 52 games.

And another clean inning for Game Notes mascot Caleb Thielbar: 25.2 IP, 8 hits so far. I know it’s just relief work, and not even very high leverage at that. But through 24 career games, Thielbar has 15 hitless outings of at least one inning — tied with Akinori Otsuka and John Hudek for the known record, and one more than Aroldis Chapman. (So, it’s completely unlike Thielbar’s minor-league work, and we know he’ll crash one of these days; we’re enjoying our Calebs while we can!)

__________

@Athletics 10, Angels 6 — Albert hit the D.L.; Josh moved up to cleanup and went 0-5 with 3 Ks (0-4 with RISP); Oakland rallied from down 5-0 and survived a 7-walk day by Jarrod Parker (jacking their West lead to 6 games); and a great big fork pierced the rump of the Angels’ season: They are done.

  • Hamilton is 12 for 76 with runners in scoring position (.158) — not quite the worst in the majors, but close enough.

__________

@Blue Jays 2, Astros 1 — The 15th pitcher to strike out 10 Astros is Todd Redmond, a former 39th-round draft choice who was waived twice this offseason.

__________

@Nationals 14, Mets 1 — Washington’s biggest output of runs and hits this year, and the franchise’s biggest margin of victory since 2000-07-03. The nos. 6-8 hitters Ian Desmond, Denard Span and Wilson Ramos combined for 10 hits, 10 RBI and 8 runs. And now they’re just 7 games out of the 2nd wild card.

  • Ramos, the strong-hitting catcher who just can’t stay healthy, hit his first-ever grand slam, officially blowing the doors off in the 3rd inning.

____________________

Late Saturday

@Athletics 3, Angels 1 — The 2-run HR by Derek Norris was the 5th by a pinch-hitter this year that flipped a deficit in the 7th inning or later. Oakland’s other catcher, John Jaso, had one in April, also against the Angels, pinch-hitting for Norris.

  • Norris was hitless in 12 prior PH appearances.
  • The A’s are not exceptionally hot, but they’ve opened up a 5-game lead on Texas. Oakland trailed by half a game entering July, and have gone 13-8 this month, while the Rangers are 8-14.

__________

@Tigers 10, Phillies 0 — Max Scherzer was the 8th to start on his birthday this year, but just the 2nd to enjoy a team victory. Teams with birthday starters are 90-97 since 2000; the only two complete games were losses. CC Sabathia has started 4 times on his birthday, all team losses, with one QS and three blow-ups.

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Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago

—“Cano’s clutch performance is another discussion, but it’s hard to imagine any other current Yankee being passed in front of Cano in that spot.”

Maddon came to the mound after the first pitch to Jeter – a wild one that sent Gardener to 2nd.
The IBB seemed strategic – to prevent Jeter from bunting Gardner to 3rd + setting up the DP.
(assuming Cano wouldn’t bunt… good assumption).
…And Soriano’s game winner was a sharp grounder that found its way though.

Jonas Gumby
Jonas Gumby
11 years ago

Friday, August 23rd, 1st inning, Ivan Nova will locate a fastball upon Myers’ back. Good DAY, sir!

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  Jonas Gumby

Based on the unwritten laws of baseball he probably deserves it. As someone who didn’t grow up with the sport in the same way, however, I find the practice of intentionally trying to hit someone with a solid object travelling at 90mph most reprehensible.

Jonas Gumby
Jonas Gumby
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

Myself and Leo Tolstoy would agree with you. Plus, I prefer the out to the free baserunner. I find it funny that some players can do a bat flip, others cannot. In the unwritten rules handbook, there is an unwritten footnote, which a ghost writer does not say, “those players with experience are exonerated; it is less deplorable.”

Jonas Gumby
Jonas Gumby
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

It’s all good, JA. I understood your points, and I wasn’t inferring that you were condemning such tomfoolery towards rooks in specific.

Jonas Gumby
Jonas Gumby
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

I just meant to emphasize how infrequently retaliation occurs when a veteran does these equally annoying non-climax-situation celebrations.

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

No worries, I did assume you were merely pointing out the likely outcome. I take your point that the intention is not always to hit the batter. And I agree that Myers is a bit showboaty and perhaps that’s not particularly edifying either. (I particularly liked a line in one of your recent Game Notes, noting that, based on the batter’s reaction, his homer had apparently just clinched the World Series.) I can also see how a pitcher might lose control of his emotions in the heat of the moment. But when it’s several innings later, or a different pitcher,… Read more »

Jonas Gumby
Jonas Gumby
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

You say Ditto Egregious, I say Didi Gregorious, let’s call the whole thing off.

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Should Albert Pujols have gotten decked every single time he stood and admired his long balls over the years? He’d have 400 cumulative bruises. Maybe you have said something in this regard, John, but how does a bat flip compare to the antics of Yasiel Puig? Staring down a pitcher after he walked toward home on a bases-loaded walk? I’ve never seen that in all my born days. Sliding into home after his walk-off today? I’m not really liking that guy right now. There’s just a little bit too much mustard on that hot dog. But I’m with RJ on… Read more »

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  bstar

I wondered what sort of reaction Puig’s slide would provoke. I actually didn’t find it too bothersome, but only because I’ve witnessed this:comment image

tag
tag
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

I’ve always been of the opinion that batters can celebrate any way they want, short of mooning the pitcher, after hitting a homer. Albert certainly stared and stared, admiring many of his Wrigley Field shots over the years, and I never begrudged him, much as I disliked him and the Cards. Hitting a baseball for a home run, considering the physics and physiology involved, is basically impossible, and even the best batters only manage it a few dozen times in the course of, what, a couple thousand swings a year. So I think they should be able to enjoy it,… Read more »

Mike L
Mike L
11 years ago
Reply to  tag

Tag+John A. Lombardi was quoted as saying “When you get to the end zone, act like you’ve been there before.” Smart fella

tag
tag
11 years ago
Reply to  tag

John, I think the crux of the issue concerns how you celebrate. I think you can express pride in something well done without showing up your opponent or necessarily hamming it up. I like it when a player takes joy, and then expresses that joy, in doing something very difficult. Baseball (and other sports) shouldn’t just be another day at the office. It should have flair to it. It should exude joie de vivre at its best. The Brazilian announcer says “gooooooaaaaaallllll” for two minutes and the scorer himself flies around on wings of elation after netting one in soccer,… Read more »

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  tag

John @17, since you’re referencing tennis, Jimmy Connors basically single-handedly invented the fist pump.

Jimbo congratulating after breaking the serve of Bjorn Borg was a bad thing?

The thousands in the stands and watching on the telly would disagree.

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Given the level of hysteria that accompanies TDs and goals in football, hockey, and soccer, I’m glad baseball HR reactions are still sane by comparison (though I’m sorry every walk-off bingle now looks like a Thomson-shot aftermath) – it’s remarkable that such subtle moves as a bat-flip or stare are considered etiquette breaches. Personally, I think baseball’s Unwritten Rule Book needs to be seriously edited – who decided to write this sort of Bible For the Thin-Skinned? If you take all the classless showboats out of baseball, you also lose the classy players who make their mark through sangfroid (as… Read more »

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago

agreed, eps.
A bat flip? As a 22 year old hitting a homerun in Yankee Stadium?
Relax, people.

The whole team meeting at homeplate for a group hump (every single time) is the thing that seems out of proportion to me.

Jimbo
Jimbo
11 years ago

Rajai Davis not only stole 4 bases today, but he advanced 6 bases on those plays, as 2 of his teals of 2nd resulted in wild throws that advanced him to 3rd. I’m guessing it’s been a long time since a player advanced 6 bases in one game on baserunning plays alone.

Doug
Doug
11 years ago
Reply to  Jimbo

Davis’s game was just the 185th since 1916 of 4+ SB. Here’s the breakdwon by decade.
1916-19: 9
1920-29: 6
1930-39: 1
1940-49: 3
1950-59: 4
1960-69: 5
1970-79: 18
1980-89: 53
1990-99: 42
2000-09: 35
2010-13: 9

Kenny Lofton is the oldest with a 4 SB game, at age 40 in 2007. Elvis Andrus the youngest at age 20 in 2009. Rickey Henderson has the most such games at 19, more than 10% of all such games and almost double #2 Vince Coleman who has 10. Tim Raines and Davey Lopes are next, each with half of Coleman’s total.

Russell
Russell
11 years ago

something I noticed about that Scherzer boxscore, his pitches (75) were less than his Game Score (77). This reminded me of the “Maddux” stat mentioned previously about pitching economical CG shutouts. In the PI, I chose Game Scores 75 or greater and found that it’s been done 88 times, and Maddux has 9 of those, as you would expect.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago
Reply to  Russell

Concerning that list of 88 games there are at least two that show a minimum number of pitches. One is the game of John Fulgham on 8-17-79 which shows 39 pitches and of course it did not happen. He faced 29 batters with 0 BB, 0 HBP and 5 SO. That indicates a minimum of 39 pitches. Similarly for Eric Rasmussen on 9-28-79 who faced 31 batters with 3 BB, 0 HBP and 1 SO for a minimum of 42 pitches.

DaveR
DaveR
11 years ago

I thought Puig’s bat-flip to be MUCH more egregious than Myers’. I also remember the outrage of Dave Parker’s home run trot that took him almost to the first base dugout, then a forty-second jog around the bases. None of that bothers me as much as someone that doesn’t run out a grounder or a pop-up, or a fly ball. It’s all entertainment! Basketball players with their stares after a slam-dunk in the second quarter, football players with THEIR antics in a blowout loss; it’s all about showing up your opponent now.

no statistician but
no statistician but
11 years ago
Reply to  DaveR

Justifying a type of behavior because everybody’s doing it or something equivalent is a suspect attitude at best, or so it seems to me, the old fogey. I’ll take the opposite line: let’s have all the players in all the sports act with dignity and respect for other players on other teams and see what happens. I don’t agree that’s sports are entertainment in the same way sit-coms and talk shows are. They only appear to have become so over the years thanks to outside influences, notably big money, cultural changes, and the decline of the influence of responsible parents… Read more »

Paul E
Paul E
11 years ago

NSB:
” “cultural changes, and the decline of the influence of responsible parents on children.” ”

Don’t get me started….you’re hitting the nail on the head here. This all started with in the mid-’60’s with Muhammed Ali hamming it up in the interest of selling tickets. Reggie Jackson admiring and gawking at that All Star game HR in Detroit in 1971 got baseball started in the wrong direction. But, yeah, where are the fathers who were supposed to teach children respect for opponents?

brp
brp
11 years ago
Reply to  Paul E

I have never understood how celebrating your own accomplishment is “showing up your opponent.” If you don’t like it, throw a better pitch next time.

There’s a giant difference between a casual bat flip and staring down the pitcher or trash-talking the catcher. That sort of crap I can’t stand, but really? A bat flip is a problem? Nobody seemed to care when Griffey Jr dropped his bat and stared at a HR flying out.

Settle the hell down.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

John Autin, what you are asking for – with the “please dont flip the bat” – is something subversive to instinct. I assume you’ve played ball – or at least gone to a batting cage. You know that feeling, that delicious feeling of hitting the sweet spot. Now imagine being 22 years old. Pulsing with more muscle and testosterone than you or I will ever know. You have made it to the show. You have just hit the sweet spot in Yankee Stadium. And in that moment, in that SPLIT SECOND, you are expecting that young man to have the… Read more »

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

And regarding Puig, besides being 22, he just got to this country.
He doesn’t know the unwritten rules from 100 years ago.
He is taking his cues from his teammates.

And he has no idea that there are a million middle aged repressed white men sitting at their computers condemning his exuberance.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

Interesting Puig split:

Bases empty:
.444 .488 .709 1.198

Runners on:
.254 .299 .394 .693

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

John, the prevailing culture is that every one of his teammates was at home plate jumping and shouting like horny baboons. That started when, 10 years ago? Long enough for it to become normal to the younger generation, but soon enough that it is still inappropriate to those of us who learned the game differently. Being in that position for the first time, yes, I can see how sliding into home plate might seem like a normal thing to do. Puig’s older, wiser, in-dugout mentor is not the spanish-speaking ghost of Joe DiMaggio. It is a 29 year old Hanley… Read more »

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

Baseball has always had showboats, egotists, and guys with chips on their shoulders – I don’t think there’s a cultural decline going on. (Not that I cede to nsb on fogeyism, but I may have established a better basis to identify with young people who act like jerks.) What bothers me about the walkoff scrum is that it’s becoming an obligatory ritual routine – really tiresome. Nothing wears away interest like routine hype (the reason I watch games with the sound off – man, I miss Ernie Harwell). And as a side note, Puig isn’t the first player I’ve seen… Read more »

no statistician but
no statistician but
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

Voomo @ #30: I played a lot of league ball in the 1950s and 1960s. I can tell you categorically that almost all of the current behavior that some people find objectionable for reasons of manners or whatever did not exist then at the youth level, in great part because the managers and coaches of the teams would yank anyone for grandstanding, taunting, loafing on a long fly ball instead on getting out of the box, showing up the opposition in flagrant ways, etc. It just didn’t happen. Some parents (fathers) got very exercised because their sons were disciplined for… Read more »

no statistician but
no statistician but
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

That’s Voomo @ 31.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

nsb,

I hear you.
I’m simply saying that players who did NOT have that sort of instruction in 50’s etiquette are not to blame as individuals.

The culture has changed, for better and worse.

I played ball in the 80’s.
My version looked like yours.

Let’s, for the sake of sanity, acknowledge what IS, rather than aggravate ourselves with a “damn kids get off my lawn” approach.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

I’m giving myself that advice, you see, because the obligatory home plate walk off scrum aggravates the hell out of me.

BryanM
BryanM
11 years ago
Reply to  Paul E

It does in fact come down to what we teach our children , as has been well observed above. The instinct we all share is to celebrate our

Brent
Brent
11 years ago

Nice find on the 19 inning Red/Dodger tie. Any other “Mad Men” fans spot Don Draper’s alter ego http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/whitmdi01.shtml in the boxscore? I guess that is what he was up to prior to the Korean War and then changing his name and moving on to the Sterling Cooper ad agency.

Paul E

I haven’t been reading everyday or sometimes will go a week without looking into this site, 🙁 , however, has anyone noticed Carlos Gomez is on pace for a baseball-reference WAR season of ~ 10.5? This would be in the top 15 of all-time by a CF and a season for the ages – yeah, despite the Brewers dropping 95 games.
Others on that list include such bums as Mantle, Cobb, Mays, and a kid named Trout. You know, Hall of Famers……

brp
brp
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Sorry JA, that’s what I get for not refreshing the page before I post…

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Here’s the weird thing….it’s not just Gomez. Logan Schafer is +12 Rfield, Aoki is +10 and Braun is +4. Including Gomez’ +27, means the 4 primary outfielders for the Brewers are +53 Rfield this year. I have a hard time believing that.

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

As for bias toward modern players, three things: Rfield is now using DRS, not TZ like 30 years ago. DRS (and Fangraphs’ UZR) yield higher positive and lower negative numbers than TZ. Carlos Gomez 2013: +27 DRS runs / +3 TZ runs Andrelton Simmons 2013: +25 DRS runs / +17 TZ runs Secondly, better positioning is likely a partial cause of higher Rfield numbers than in the past. Coaches of yesteryear weren’t privy to the advanced batted ball spray charts of individual hitters like they are today. Also, it’s possible likely that outfielders are faster today than those who played… Read more »

BryanM
BryanM
11 years ago
Reply to  bstar

As someone who saw Mantle play, I think it is extremely unlikely that modern players are appreciably faster. Puig has an incredible arm , but Clemente and Barfield were just as impressive, I cannot claim to understand how defensive WAR is calculated , but certainly all the runs that a team allows are allowed by a combination of all the pitchers and all the defenders. To say that a particular defender has “saved ” runs is to imply that , absent his actions , his teammates would have allowed them . I think it is more likely we are counting… Read more »

BryanM
BryanM
11 years ago
Reply to  BryanM

Apologies for the accent-aigu on “defense” above. Accidentally had French spell-check on

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago
Reply to  BryanM

I haven’t followed Gomez or the amazing fielding antics of the Brewers, but I seem to remember that last year there was a similar distortion with Brett Lawrie, till it was analyzed as a function of changed strategies of team défense and a correction in dWAR formula was imposed.

BryanM
BryanM
11 years ago
Reply to  BryanM

To be clear , I applaud the attempts to quantify the skill of fielders, but we must all recognize that even a simple a measure as RF is subject to many influences that are out of control of the fielder Robin Roberts was a pitcher that threw it in the strike zone and expected his teammates to turn batted balls into outs. Whether he pitched that way because Richie Ashburn was back there or Richie was back there because he pitched that way is moot. Together they made a lot of outs., but we need a long time to separate… Read more »

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  BryanM

epm, that situation was quite different. Lawrie’s Rfield was so out of whack last year that, IIRC, he was on pace for 90-100 runs by year’s end. Lawrie’s a very good/great fielder anyway, but what was driving his crazy numbers was DRS (not UZR, by the way) was crediting him for plays he made in rightfield in the Jays’ super overshift. Yes, they sent their 3B to short right field. Since this is obviously an “out-of-zone” play, Lawrie was getting tons of credit here. DRS corrected their error before the All-Star break, and Lawrie’s D numbers went from out-of-this-world back… Read more »

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago
Reply to  BryanM

bstar, Yes, that’s how I recall the Lawrie adjustment (and thanks for teaching me IIRC: nothing cannot be googled). Because I have no idea whether Milwaukee has been trying our a new OF defense, I wondered about a parallel. I’ll take your word that there isn’t one.

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  BryanM

“nothing cannot be googled.”

Hey, good hint. I just found out what FTFY means (fixed that for you).

Bryan O'Connor
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  BryanM

I took a guess at FTFY, bstar. The Y was a New York baseball team and the two Fs were variations of the same word. Guess I was wrong.

Mike L
Mike L
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

John A, to cheer you up, here’s a story about that advanced stats-loving Ken Harrelson in the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/30/sports/baseball/for-baseball-broadcaster-numbers-arent-the-story.html?hp&_r=0

You can put that one in the books.

no statistician but
no statistician but
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Richie Ashburn actually had 538 CF putouts in 1951. (Incidentally, 6 of the top twelve PO totals for the position are his.) His dWAR for 1951 is the astounding 1.1.

I know, I know, WAR proves conclusively that John Candy on a broken leg could have done equally well, given that fly-ball pitching staff.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

The B-R leaderboard shows Lemon as the AL record-holder with 512 PO. It also shows Taylor Douthit as the NL and ML record-holder with 547 PO in 1928.

Hartvig
Hartvig
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Mike L-

I don’t know if I’d call it my favorite part of the story since even though my total distain for Harrelson as an announcer goes back to his first season with the White Sox (1985) I’d still never wish him dead but I found it at least a little amusing when he said that he’d ideally like to die in the broadcast booth calling a home run shot for a player who is currently 37 years old, is by far the slowest baserunner in the game and currently has an OPS+ below 80.

Doug
Doug
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Recently, someone asked the question “What happened to Mike Trout’s defense this year?”. I recall that someone looked into it and determined that a large chunk of Trout’s dWAR last year was due to a handful of plays (such as over the fence catches) that counted huge because of the runs that were directly saved. Hence, John’s caution about putting too much stock in a single year’s dWAR score. Over time, opportunities for over-the-fence catches (and similar plays, live diving catches or reaching into the seats to catch a foul ball, etc.) tend to even out, giving you a better… Read more »

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

JA @50, perhaps you missed my rant about how awful Range Factor truly is. To sum it up, range factor only counts up assists and putouts but does not include opportunities to make those putouts (and also doesn’t include errors). What is RF really worth if it’s simply a counting total without any context? Derek Jeter has 50 balls hit in his “zone” over the course of 10 games. He makes one error, misses 12 of those balls, and converts the other 37. Andrelton Simmons has 40 balls hit in his zone over the same time frame. He makes no… Read more »

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Bstar @68 – I would say the biggest problem with the advanced defensive numbers is this….only a handful of people truly understand them and know how to calculate them. The rest of us are being asked to accept this on faith which is obviously quite hard for many of us. And as you noted in #39, different defensive systems can lead to quite different conclusions. So what to believe? I’m pretty sure OPS+ will still be with us 10 years from now. But will DRS? Who knows? Maybe some other defensive system will supplant DRS and tell us that Gomez’… Read more »

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Ed, DRS or UZR should always be used over TZ because it contains more info. TZ is only useful for the pre-DRS/UZR years because that’s all we have. The discrepancies between UZR and DRS aren’t nearly as harsh as they are between TZ and UZR/DRS. Also, a lot of people think OPS+ is pretty worthless. Rbat as a rate stat and wRC+ are much better because they use linear weights, but like you I will continue to use it because it’s a nice quick ‘n dirty and it’s what B-Ref provides. I don’t see anything supplanting DRS or UZR until… Read more »

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Bstar @70

1) You’re the one who introduced OPS+ and TZ into the conversation, not me. 🙂

2) OPS+ certainly has its limitations but I’ve never heard anyone call it worthless. That seems a bit strong.

3) Just because a stat contains more information doesn’t automatically make it better. It can, but it really depends on the quality of the additional data among other factors. Perhaps stats like DRS and UZR are better than TZ, but how can that be confirmed?

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Ed, you’re right. “Worthless” was too harsh.

But, still…

http://sportsdataresearch.com/shortcomings-of-ops-as-an-advanced-metric/

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Bstar – Apparently you and I had a discussion re: OPS+ almost exactly a year ago. And in comment #13 I called it “essentially meaningless”. So I’ll be having me some crow for dinner tonight….

http://www.highheatstats.com/2012/08/why-ops-matters/

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Only explanation: Ed and bstar are the same person, and they forgot which username was supposed to be on which side of the argument for the purposes of this discussion. 🙂

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

My actual name is Edward B. Starr. The psychic split-aparts diverged after the ’95 World Series.

brp
brp
11 years ago
Reply to  Paul E

He’s currently on pace to have more Rfield than anyone in history based on what I looked up on BBRef a couple days ago (like 45 or more, the most anyone has ever had is 40).

Gomez has had a great year but a 10 WAR season would be akin to whoever on here pointed out that a couple of HR-saving catches by Trout last year gave him something like a full extra point or more of WAR. Go-go has definitely had a couple of those plays this season, too.

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

Actually, brp, it was seven runs saved for four over-the-wall catches by Trout last year.

I know Carlos Gomez has at least one of those this year, robbing Joey Votto of a go-ahead HR in the ninth to win a game for the Brewers over Cincy.

Brent
Brent
11 years ago

I doubt that the Royals are why the title references 2003, but this the first time the Royals have been .500 or better since game 162 of 2003.

And after watching the ChiSox get swept by them this weekend, can I say that the ChiSox lineup is really, really bad.

Doug
Doug
11 years ago

The Dodgers’ win is the shortest of 14 games won by a team striking out 20+ times. Only 3 of those games occurred prior to 1999. The earliest of them, in 1972, was also a Dodger/Red game, won by the Reds.

Daniel Longmire
Daniel Longmire
11 years ago

An additional note for the Dodgers-Reds game: Brandon picked up the win in relief, the third straight appearance where he has done so. With 9 decisions in just 38.1 innings (38 games), he is averaging 2.11 decisions/9 IP. League had a similarly eventful season in 2010, where he went 9-7 in 79 innings (70 games), though his rate of 1.82 decisions/9 IP is a little lower than this year. With a Leverage Index of 1.3 for his career, he doesn’t seem to be placed in exceptionally stressful situations, and yet the game often is decided during his appearances. This is… Read more »

Daniel Longmire
Daniel Longmire
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

John, I noticed that too; the decisions were coming in atypical situations. Perhaps the Dodgers have had a lot of come-from-behind wins during their hot spell, and League has been the beneficiary of their rallies.

Mitch Williams only had one blown save among those five wins, and just one BS for a loss the entire season? Now THAT is surprising. Later that same August, he had another 3 game decision streak, all wins as well, giving him 8 victories (!) for the month.

Mike L
Mike L
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

John A. “Autin” as in “Autun” , France? Leaves you with French/Roman antecedents and a genetic yearning for rhetoric. Don’t fight your destiny.

Chuck
Chuck
11 years ago

Re: Myers and Puig. Does anyone remember the Prince Fielder walk-off celebration a few years ago while still with Milwaukee? He jumped on home plate and all his teammates fell over like bowling pins? I don’t recall the opponent at this point, but I do remember the next March the Brewers first spring training game was against the same team. You know what happened? Fielder caught one in the back. Myers’ bat flip may have been a bit over the top, but as someone mentioned above, he probably gets a pass because of the situation, and also because the Yankees… Read more »

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  Chuck

It was against the Giants, and Zito did the ceremonial plunking. Here’s the video of the walk-off: http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=6511913

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