Circle of Great 1950 Balloting

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This post is for voting and discussion in the twenty-second round of balloting for the Circle of Greats. This round adds those players born in 1950. Rules and lists are after the jump.

The new group joins the holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full group eligible to receive your votes this round. The new group of 1950-born players must, as always, have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers).

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players. The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats. Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, June 25, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM EDT Sunday, June 23.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: 1950 COG Vote Tally . I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes. Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted. Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the new born-in-1950 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players. The twelve current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility, and alphabetically when the future eligibility number is the same. The new group of 1950 birth-year guys are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors, and alphabetically among players with the same number of seasons played.

Holdovers:
Tony Gwynn (eligibility guaranteed for 14 rounds)
Lou Whitaker (eligibility guaranteed for 7 rounds)
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 6 rounds)
Alan Trammell (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Tim Raines (eligibility guaranteed for 4 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Roberto Alomar (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Dwight Evans (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Rich Gossage (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Eddie Murray (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Dave Winfield (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1950, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Brian Downing
Ken Griffey
Chris Speier
Jim Dwyer
Frank White
Juan Beniquez
Manny Trillo
Tim Foli
Gary Matthews
Jorge Orta
Doug DeCinces
Greg Luzinski
Milt May
Gorman Thomas
Bruce Bochte
Mike Easler
Rick Auerbach
Bill Fahey
Duane Kuiper
Mike Phillips
Otto Velez
Dane Iorg
Mike Tyson
Bobby Valentine

Pitchers (born in 1950, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Doyle Alexander
Bob Forsch
Jim Slaton
Milt Wilcox
Ray Burris
Burt Hooton
Bruce Kison
Ron Guidry
Tippy Martinez
Jon Matlack
John Montefusco
Dale Murray
Elias Sosa
Craig Swan
Doug Bird
Ross Grimsley
Lynn McGlothen
Randy Jones
J.R. Richard

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Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Trammell
Sandberg
Raines

Here’s hopin’ for one of the middle infielders on the ballot… I don’t think it’ll happen, though.

11 years ago

Seven pitchers on the holdover list had as many or more home runs than Duane Kuiper’s solitary big fly.

Editor

Dalton Mack

11 years ago

Whitaker, Trammell, Raines.

--bill

11 years ago

Trammell, Gossage, Murray.

Mike HBC

11 years ago

Gwynn, Goose, Smoltz.

oneblankspace

11 years ago

I often mention Tim Foli in my math classes when multiplying binomials — order doesnt matter, as long as you get F, O, I, and L products.

That said, I vote for Gwynn, Biggio, and Luzinski.

Joel

11 years ago

Murray
Gwynn
Smoltz

Chris C

11 years ago

Raines, Biggio, Evans

Bix

11 years ago

Gwynn, Whitaker, Raines

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to Bix

Hey, Bix, welcome to the voting.

T-Bone

11 years ago

Sandberg
Evans
Winfield

koma

11 years ago

Tony Gwynn, John Smoltz, Ken Griffey

Mike

11 years ago

Winfield
Raines
And 1 “What could have been” vote for James Rodney Richard (

J.R.

11 years ago

Gwynn, Raines, Biggio.

David Horwich

11 years ago

Alomar, Gwynn, Raines

Voomo Zanzibar

11 years ago

I’m building a team for the next 15 years, and I want three guys who will give me predictable outcomes for the duration.

Eddie Murray
Dwight Evans
Lou Whitaker

Darien

11 years ago

I’m clearly tired; I saw that list and couldn’t believe Griffey was that old!

Trammell, Raines, and Biggio

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to Darien

Whereas, my reaction to seeing Griffey come up in this birth year was damn, I’m old — I’ve watched two generations of Griffey careers beginning to end!

Hartvig

11 years ago

Without going back and looking at their career numbers if you had asked me which player born in 1950 had the most career WAR I’m not certain I would have named Brian Downing until my 7th or 8th guess. And since when the Class of 1936 rolls around it’s pretty likely that Bill Mazeroski will pick up a vote or 2 I feel I should at least mention Frank White since he’s exactly the same player only maybe even just a tiny bit better. Still plenty of talent out there. My calculations say 5 absolutes, 2 probably’s and 3 maybes… Read more »

Nick Pain

11 years ago

Whitaker, Raines, Gwynn

11 years ago

If you click on Jorge Orta’s name, you bring up Chris Speier’s page.

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to MJ

Fixed. That was, oddly enough, the result of a typo that occurred in making sure that the Gary Matthews link, just above Orta on the list, did not link to his son’s stats. The magic of html.

11 years ago

It was really hard to choose a third person for my ballot. This should be an exciting and close vote between at least six contenders:

Whitaker
Trammell
Sandberg

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to MJ

As you predicted, MJ, a close, exciting vote. At the moment:
Raines 20
Trammell 19
Gwynn 18
Whitaker 16

All four appearing on between 34% and 44% of the ballots thus far. This one is anybody’s for the taking.

11 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Yeah. Surprised that Smoltz and Sandberg aren’t really in the mix. I thought that they would get more support.

Mike L

11 years ago

I’m going to look for a couple of saves for Hall of Famers on the bubble, and one screaming homer pick.
Gossage, Sandberg, and Guidry. Go Gator.

Fireworks

11 years ago

Dewey, Mr. May, Goose.

Jeff Harris

11 years ago

Whitaker, Trammell, Raines

Nadig

11 years ago

Gwynn, Raines, Smoltz.

ATarwerdi96

11 years ago

Tony Gwynn, Lou Whitaker, Eddie Murray

Editor

Bryan O'Connor

11 years ago

Wins Above Average, excluding negative seasons:

Trammell 44.7
Whitaker 42.7
Smoltz 40.1
Sandberg 38.8
Alomar 36.8
Raines 36.8
Gwynn 36.5
Biggio 36.3
Murray 34.9
Evans 34.7
Winfield 31.7
Guidry 27.2
Downing 22.6
Gossage 20.6

Gossage is tempting, but I’ll stick with:

Trammell. Whitaker. Smoltz.

11 years ago

Just went through and re-evaluated my ballot.
Lou Whitaker, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell

Brent

11 years ago

Shout out to Jorge Orta who had the single most important hit that wasn’t a hit in Royals’ history. But he doesn’t get a vote. Nor does Dane Iorg who followed Orta’s non-hit with the single most important game ending hit in Royals’ history. Nor does Doug Bird, an important member of the pre-Quiz KC bullpen.

But Frank White certainly gets a vote here. And Whitaker and Trammell will get my other two votes.

KalineCountry

11 years ago

Trammell, Whitaker, Raines.

brp

11 years ago

Wait, Brian Downing, Greg Luzinski, AND Gorman Thomas? Too much fun with outfielders in this birth year! Mike Tyson?! Bobby V? Gary Matthews Sr and Ken Griffey Sr?

OK, not voting for any of these guys. Hat tip to JR Richard, though, a clearly dominant player with simply too short of a career to consider here.

My actual vote, to clear out some MIFs:
Trammell
Sandberg
Whitaker

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to brp

Bobby Valentine barely gets on the list here. You need 10 seasons in the majors, and Bobby only had nine seasons with plate appearances. But the Dodgers did bring Valentine up as a nineteen-year-old in September of 1969 and had him pinch-run in five games. He didn’t make it back to the majors till ’71, but but that 1969 cup of (weak) coffee gets him to the 10-year minimum.

brp

11 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Just a pretty hilarious list of players… wonder how that OF defense would be if you put Downing and Luzinski on the corners, just to see how much ground Matthews Sr. could really cover… put him to the test 🙂

The Diamond King

11 years ago

Murray, Frank White and Raines

bcholm

11 years ago

Raines, Trammel, Sandberg

Artie Z

11 years ago

Raines, Murray, Gwynn

Not sure if Alomar is going to last through this round, but if he can somehow hang on through the 1943 balloting he would be on the same ballot as Sandy Sr.

Kirk

11 years ago

Gwynn, Raines, Alomar

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Raines, Whitaker, Trammell and Gwynn all getting significant support in the early voting. Further down the ballot, note that there are six holdovers this round who are on the bubble (need 10% support, or top nine in the voting, to stay on the ballot): Sandberg, Alomar and Eddie Murray, who have been on the bubble for a while, plus Winfield, Dwight Evans and Goose Gossage from last round’s birth-year class. Also keep in mind that next week’s voting will be a “redemption round”, where we vote on guys who have dropped off the ballot, with the top two vote-getters returning… Read more »

Chris C

11 years ago

Birtelcom, the spreadsheet link doesn’t appear to be working correctly. It’s bringing me to a Google Docs page requesting a sign in.

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to Chris C

That’s odd, Chris. The link is set to be open to all. I think others have been on it today. Are other folks having the same problem at the moment?

11 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Nope. I’ve accessed it many times today with no problems.

Chris C

11 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Must have been me doing something. It’s working ok now. Thanks.

Hub Kid

11 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

I did have this problem at around the same time that Chris mentioned it (yesterday) I logged into my Google Docs account and it let me in.

It stopped then, and hasn’t done it since then.

11 years ago

trammel, whitaker, gwynn

Abbott

11 years ago

Alomar, Biggio, Raines

11 years ago

There was a baseball player named Mike Tyson??? And he lasted 10+ years in the majors??? How have I never heard of him before??? And why has no one voted for him yet??? I may need to break my voting moratorium just to throw a token vote his way.

Brent

11 years ago

Reply to Ed

light hitting cardinal 2nd baseman of the 70s.

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to Ed

Most games as a middle infielder for the Cardinals during the 1970s:
1. Mike Tyson 824 games
2. Ted Sizemore 655 games
3. Garry Templeton 510 games
4. Dal Maxvill 398 games
5. Julian Javier 217 games

So far as I know he never bit anyone’s ear, at least during a major league game.

oneblankspace

11 years ago

Reply to Ed

Tyson also played for the Chicago Cu** in the pre-Ryne Sandberg era.

mosc

11 years ago

Screw it, I’m a homer. I admit it.

Winfield, Gossage, Guidry

Is Dave F-ing Winfield really in danger of dropping off the ballot? Really?

michael Sullivan

11 years ago

Reply to mosc

Trammell, Whitaker, Raines.

Would love to shout out a couple of the 1950ers, but sad to say, none of them are even close to COG material.

michael Sullivan

11 years ago

Reply to mosc

dang it, that last wasn’t supposed to be a reply. My intended reply to you, mosc was:

“Yes.”

But High Heat stats said it was too short.

Andy

11 years ago

I vote for Gwynn, Smoltz, Biggio

GrandyMan

11 years ago

Thought I posted here already, but I can’t find it, so let’s try again…

Whitaker, Smoltz, Trammell.

Editor

Bryan O'Connor

11 years ago

There’s a very good chance this round produces the weakest member of the Circle of Greats to-date. According to the Hall of Stats, the two Greats we’ve inducted with the lowest Hall Rating are Frank Thomas and Paul Molitor at 140. The only two players on this ballot with a higher Hall Rating are Whitaker (144) and Trammell (143). Among the current voting leaders are Raines and Gwynn, who stand back-to-back on the Hall Rating list at 128. Those two represent precisely what HoS would consider the cusp of the Circle of Greats, since they rank 112th and 113th in… Read more »

11 years ago

Reply to Bryan O'Connor

It’s also possible, though unlikely, that after this round there could be just 5 holdovers left.

11 years ago

Reply to Bryan O'Connor

Oops just reread the rules, can’t happen, top 9 carryover…

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to Bryan O'Connor

The HoS relies entirely on b-ref WAR and WAA numbers, to which Adam then applies his very elegant formula. But even small tweaks to the underlying WAR and WAA methodology could change the relationship between, say, Trammell on the one hand and Raines and Gwynn on the other. In terms of one element, fangraphs’ WAR gives Gwynn and Raines a higher career WAR than Trammell, where b-ref’s WAR puts Trammell ahead of Gwynn and Raines. Comparing the relative contributions of middle infielders and corner outfielders is hard, and where the overall value differences are relatively narrow, I doubt there is… Read more »

Editor

Bryan O'Connor

11 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

If there were a perfect formula, we wouldn’t bother with this exercise. Discussion threads in CoG posts have illuminated several shortcomings of WAR that lead me to reconsider my beliefs about which players were better/more valuable than others.

But I do like me some Hall Rating. And it seems like a good way to start a conversation about CoG worthiness.

JEV

11 years ago

Gwynn, Smoltz, Biggio

bstar

11 years ago

Trammell, Biggio, Smoltz

RonG

11 years ago

Trammell, Whitaker, Smoltz

Jeff Hill

11 years ago

Gwynn, Raines, Smoltz

11 years ago

Gwynn, Smoltz, Raines with apologies to Dewey

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

Using my WAR/162 method, I have what I believe is the 3rd consecutive initial vote for these 3 candidates: 1. Alan Trammell (6.4 WAR/162 during 1980-90) 2. Ryne Sandberg (6.2 WAR/162 during 1984-92) 3. Craig Biggio (5.8 WAR/162 during 1991-99) Once again, I’m pulling for Trammell all the way, but I want to see Alomar, Murray, Sandberg, Winfield, 2 newcomers (DeCinces and Matlack), and possibly Evans get through. Here is a ranking of those guys and the other HOF-worthy candidates: 4. Lou Whitaker (5.5 WAR/162 during 1979-93) 5. Tim Raines (6.7 WAR/162 during 1983-87) 6. Eddie Murray (5.7 WAR/162 during… Read more »

opal611

11 years ago

For the 1950 election, I’m voting for:
-Tony Gwynn
-Ryne Sandberg
-Roberto Alomar

Other top candidates I considered highly (and/or will consider in future rounds):
-Biggio (Hopefully only temporarily off my ballot)
-Smoltz
-Trammell
-Raines
-Whitaker
-Murray
-Evans
-Winfield