Circle of Greats 1955 Balloting – Part 2

This post is for voting and discussion in the sixteenth round of balloting for the Circle of Greats. This round adds those players born in 1955 who were not added in the previous round. Rules and lists are after the jump.

As usual, the group of players newly eligible this round joins the holdovers from previous rounds of balloting to comprise the full list of players eligible to receive your votes this round. And, as usual, the new group of 1955-born players, in order to join the eligible list, must have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 career Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers).

As always, each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players. The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats.  Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM EDT on Saturday, April 27, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM EDT Thursday, April 25.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: 1955 Part 2 COG Vote Tally . I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes. Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted. Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the newly eligible born-in-1955 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players. The 10 current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility, and in alphabetical order when the future eligibility number is a tie. The new group of 1955 birth-year guys are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors, and in alphabetical among players for whom the number of seasons played is a tie. In total there were 32 players born in 1955 who met the “10 seasons played or 20 WAR” minimum requirement. 16 of those are being added to the eligible list this round (alphabetically from Jack Morris through Robin Yount); the 16 players earlier in the alphabet were eligible in the previous round.

Holdovers:

Tony Gwynn (eligibility guaranteed for 9 rounds)
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 6 rounds)
Alan Trammell  (eligibility guaranteed for 4 rounds)
Lou Whitaker (eligibility guaranteed for 4 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Paul Molitor  (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Eddie Murray (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Roberto Alomar (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Tim Raines (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)

Everyday Players (born in 1955, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Robin Yount
Willie Wilson
Lonnie Smith
Dwayne Murphy
Wayne Tolleson

Pitchers (born in 1955, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Jack Morris
Jeff Reardon
Ed Whitson
Bryn Smith
Ted Power
Dave Smith
Mike Scott
Shane Rawley
Lary Sorensen
Bob Owchinko
Mike Norris

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Robbs
Robbs
11 years ago

trammel whitaker smoltz

Ed
Ed
11 years ago

Birtelcom – Just so you know..Jack Morris is a bit “invisible” on the ballot. Perhaps on purpose??? 🙂

MJ
MJ
11 years ago

Whitaker
Trammell
Yount

MJ
MJ
11 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

Yep. I’ll try to be a regular in the future.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

The list of eligibles born in 1955 seems a little short, or else I’m not thinking clearly. (Always a possibility these days.) P-I finds 19 pitchers born in 1955 who pitched in 10 or more seasons, and 13 position players: Pitchers: Danny Darwin Jack Morris Jeff Reardon Greg Harris Jay Howell Ed Whitson Jim Clancy Floyd Bannister Bryn Smith Ted Power Dave Smith Mike Scott Shane Rawley Ron Davis Lary Sorensen Len Barker Ernie Camacho Bob Owchinko Mike Norris Position players: Robin Yount Willie Wilson Jack Clark Lonnie Smith Chet Lemon Mike Heath Jeffrey Leonard Lee Mazzilli Mickey Hatcher Dwayne… Read more »

MJ
MJ
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

This is part two from ’55. The missing players were voted on last round.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  MJ

Oops again. I must slow down and read more carefully.

ATarwerdi96
ATarwerdi96
11 years ago

Paul Molitor, Tony Gwynn, Lou Whitaker

J.R.
J.R.
11 years ago

Wow. This is getting rough.

Gwynn, Yount, Raines.

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
11 years ago

Yount
Trammell
Sandberg

Glad to finally be able to vote for a Brewer. Yount is the best player on the ballot, in my opinion, and by a pretty fair margin. I’ve only voted for middle infielders three rounds in a row now, with only Tom Glavine breaking that up. It feels kind of weird, after basically voting for NO middle IF guys in the first million rounds. I guess that’s how it goes, though.

Mike
Mike
11 years ago

Yount
Biggio
Gwynn

Hartvig
Hartvig
11 years ago

Trammell, Whitaker, Yount

Chris C
Chris C
11 years ago

Yount, Biggio, Raines

GrandyMan
GrandyMan
11 years ago

Whitaker, Yount, Smoltz.

The 1955 ballot doesn’t have nearly as many great baseball names as the 1956 ballot, which was a treasure trove (Rance Mulliniks – need I say more?), but it does have Bob Owchinko, who may be best known for being born on New Year’s Day and allowing one run while getting no outs in his only appearance of the ’83 season, thus maintaining an infinite ERA. Honorable mention to Ruppert Jones and Chet Lemon, who evidently was a far better ballplayer than I had ever known.

Jeff Hill
Jeff Hill
11 years ago

Gwynn, Smoltz, Yount

oneblankspace
oneblankspace
11 years ago

When Roger Clemens was asked during the 1993-94 offseason to name the three most dangerous hitters, he responded: “Robin Yount in the first, Robin Yount in the fourth, Robin Yount in the seventh.”

Since I can’t vote Yount, Yount, Yount, I’ll go with

[X] Yount
[X] Molitor
[X] Biggio

Nadig
Nadig
11 years ago

Gwynn, Molitor, Yount.

latefortheparty
latefortheparty
11 years ago

Robin Yount
Paul Molitor
Lou Whitaker

Joel
Joel
11 years ago

Yount
Raines
Alomar

Dr. Remulak
Dr. Remulak
11 years ago

Gwynn, Smoltz, Biggio.

koma
koma
11 years ago

Tony Gwynn, John Smoltz, Craig Biggio

bells
bells
11 years ago

Yount
Raines
Smoltz

Gary Bateman
Gary Bateman
11 years ago

Gwynn, Molitor, Yount

Paulie
Paulie
11 years ago

Yount, Biggio, Smoltz

Doug
Editor
11 years ago

Smoltz, Whitaker, Molitor

David Horwich
David Horwich
11 years ago

Alomar, Raines, Yount

Luis Gomez
Luis Gomez
11 years ago

Gwynn, Whitaker, Alomar

Insert Name Here
Insert Name Here
11 years ago

Another small ballot, but this time with a newcomer making it into my vote, actually as my top choice. Here is my initial vote: 1. Robin Yount (7.1 WAR/162 during 7-yr peak of 1978-84) 2. Alan Trammell (6.4 WAR/162 during 11-yr peak of 1980-90) 3. Lou Whitaker (5.6 WAR/162 during 12-yr peak of 1982-93) Here is a ranking of other HOF-caliber candidates: 4. Ryne Sandberg (6.7 WAR/162 during 5-yr peak of 1988-92) 5. Craig Biggio (5.8 WAR/162 during 9-yr peak of 1991-99) 6. Eddie Murray (5.7 WAR/162 during 9-yr peak of 1978-86) 7. Tim Raines (6.7 WAR/162 during 5-yr peak… Read more »

Jeff Harris
Jeff Harris
11 years ago

Trammell, Whitaker, Gwynn

Shping
Shping
11 years ago

Molitor, Yount, Gwynn

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago

Alomar
Molitor
Yount

Daniel Longmire
Daniel Longmire
11 years ago

This is the first time that I’m withholding a vote from a player because he doesn’t need my help, but Yount already looks like a lock. So, I’ll spread the wealth around: 1) Molitor – to me, this is like Trammell and Whitaker. How can people throw all their votes at Robin, but not Paul? Their careers are strikingly similar. 2) Gwynn – still amazes me how he isn’t running second or third on a year-by-year basis. 3) Alomar – because someone has to break up the five-headed middle infielder monstrosity that I previously mentioned. P.S. No love for Steady… Read more »

Hub Kid
Hub Kid
11 years ago

Smoltz, Trammell, Whitaker

RonG
RonG
11 years ago

Trammell, Whitaker,Smoltz

PP
PP
11 years ago

Yount, Smoltz, Molitor

--bill
--bill
11 years ago

Paul Molitor, Eddie Murray, Robin Yount

Dalton Mack
Editor
11 years ago

Smoltz, Raines, Whitaker

Brendan Bingham
Brendan Bingham
11 years ago

Raines, Molitor, Smoltz

Bryan O'Connor
Editor
11 years ago

Wins Above Average, excluding negative seasons:

Trammell 45.1
Whitaker 43.1
Yount 41.3
Molitor 40.7
Smoltz 40.2
Sandberg 39.1
Alomar 37.3
Raines 37.2
Gwynn 36.8
Biggio 36.7
Murray 34.9

I voted for Trammaker last time, but I’m not entirely convinced they were “greater” than Younitor.

Yount. Molitor. Smoltz.

mosc
mosc
11 years ago
Reply to  Bryan O'Connor

Yount (12249) and Molitor (12167) both had considerably more PA’s than Trammel (9376) and Whitaker (9967). Almost 25% more. Obviously WAA penalizes Yount for starting too young and Molitor for sticking around.

I’m all for looking at WAA, I think it’s a huge piece of the puzzle, but I also look at longevity as it’s own separate value.

I came up with the same three you did.

Bryan O'Connor
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  mosc

By excluding seasons in which a player was below average, my goal is to not penalize players who started too young or stuck around too long. Yount was below average at 19, 20, 35, and 36, bringing his total WAA down to 37.2. Trammell was below average at 19, 31, 36, and 38, bringing him down to 40.1. The primary difference between the two is that Yount kept playing every day in his mid-thirties, while Trammell never played more than 112 games in a season after age 32. This may have something to do with the relative demands of shortstop… Read more »

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Whitaker, Trammell, and a strategic vote for Raines.

Alex Putterman
Alex Putterman
11 years ago

Murray, Alomar, Gwynn

Nick Pain
Nick Pain
11 years ago

Yount, Murray, Biggio.

mosc
mosc
11 years ago

I was never a big fan of Yount’s game. Wasn’t as patient a hitter as others and lacked that real threatening power (like Molitor). I think his split between SS and CF may be negatively coloring his defense in my mind (I think of him closer to average then he probably was). He also lacked Molitor’s speed. DWAR tells me my defensive opinions of the two are incorrect, neither were average in opposing directions. I don’t know if I buy it. I find them much more similar players career wise. Though I suppose there is a simple solution, I will… Read more »

brp
brp
11 years ago
Reply to  mosc

I don’t remember Yount being a plus-defender, but I only saw him at the very end of his career. From what I have been told he was a good defender at both positions, which is a pretty impressive feat. Voting time…

Yount (Have a feeling he’s going to win easily here)

Other two votes are for 2B as we somehow still don’t have one. Rockin’ Robin will take care of the CF hole.
Whitaker
Biggio

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

Yount’s Rfield numbers show he was a good defensive shortstop but poor in the outfield. What I don’t remember is why the Brewers decided to move him. He was only 29 when he was moved to the outfield…seems a bit young to do that sort of thing. They replaced him at short with Ernie Riles. Riles wasn’t horrible but he also wasn’t the sort of player that you move a future Hall of Famer for. Odd.

mosc
mosc
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

I think for many years the thought was you protected your bats by keeping them away from interactions with spikes at second base. Yount wasn’t that fast and certainly wasn’t the greatest range CFer of his era by any means. WAR certainly would have liked him better if he had a few less years but had stayed at SS. I wonder if that isn’t pointing us towards a flaw in the system. The brewers got a lot of successful years out of his bat. I might have kept him in left though rather than center, where he transitioned to for… Read more »

MJ
MJ
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

Yount had shoulder surgery after the ’84 season and it was thought he couldn’t play SS anymore as a result of it.

Shping
Shping
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

Two questions (admittedly, they’re pro-Yount props disguised as questions, but i’m still curious): 1. Is there any argument that SS and CF are the two most skill-demanding positions? (with catcher=just plain physically demanding) 2. Do we have any good stats to measure base-running smarts and ability (such as success rates on steals, extra bases, etc)? If so, how far back do they go? Yount and Molitor both excelled in those areas — according to legend, anyway 🙂 I’ll admit that Yount’s offensive skills are possibly overrated a little, and that he was probably more “steady” than “fearsome”, (putting aside 1982… Read more »

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  Shping

Shping:

In answer to your second question, you can see a player’s contribution via baserunning under Player Value – Rbaser. As you suspected, both Yount and Molitor were both very good baserunners, even at the end of their careers. Yount added 57 runs via baserunning; Molitor 78.

Shping
Shping
11 years ago
Reply to  Shping

Thanks Ed.
Alas, it doesnt appear to include extra-bases on hits or success rates for that or similar events.
For that weird triple play the Yankees turned earlier this year, i’d love to see a way to give the Orioles baserunners a big -10 each!

bstar
bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  Shping

Shping, Rbaser absolutely does include those events, and just about anything you can think of involving baserunning. Here’s the details:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_position.shtml

birtelcom
birtelcom
11 years ago
Reply to  Shping

By my count, there have been only six players in MLB history to play at least 1,000 games at two different defensive positions (counting left, center and tight fields as separate positions):
Robin Yount, SS and CF
Ernie Banks, SS and 1B
Alex Rodriguez, SS and 3B
Rod Carew, 2B and 1B
Andre Dawson, CF and RF
Babe Ruth, RF and LF

BryanM
BryanM
11 years ago
Reply to  Shping

baserunning stats do not include fielders choices to the infield where the lead runner advances, and the out is made at first. I remember Paul Molitor being pretty good at this – not sure if they measure the number of bases advanced on defensive errors when the player was already on base.

Doug
Doug
11 years ago
Reply to  Shping

Pete Rose didn’t play 1000 games at any position, but he did play 500 games at each of 1B, 2B, 3B, LF and RF.

oneblankspace
oneblankspace
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

I had a copy of the 1981 Strat-O-Matic set. Defensive ratings were Trammell 1-ss; Whitaker 2-2b; Yount 2-ss; Molitor 3-cf, 3-rf (if I recall correctly).

Shping
Shping
11 years ago
Reply to  oneblankspace

One more Brewer shout-out and then i’ll try to stop: It’s true that in SOMatic terms, Molitor was often a “3” or “4” fielder (and those SOMatic ratings, i might add, seem more relevant than dWAR ratings, but that’s another story). Yet here’s another way of looking at it: he was a talented-enough athlete that whenever the Brewers needed to fill or replace a weak position, they asked Molitor to move there, almost on an annual basis: from SS to 2b to rf to cf to 3b to 2b to 3b, and so on (you can look it up), so… Read more »

mosc
mosc
11 years ago
Reply to  mosc

Basically I’m saying Molitor > Yount but I’ll vote for both.

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
11 years ago
Reply to  mosc

I’m not sure what power

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
11 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

Sorry – accidentally hit “Reply”

START AGAIN:
I’m not sure what power advantage Molitor had over Yount, they look fairly comparable. Their 162-game average of extra-base hits is:

-Yount: 33/7/14
-Molitor: 37/7/14

Looking at peak, its the same story. If anything, Yount had more Top-10 appearances in power categories such as SLG, XBH, and total bases.

Maybe some people considered Molitor the more “dangerous hitter”, but the evidence doesn’t support it. They were both excellent hitters, but not all-time greats.

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
11 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

I hope you mean they were “not all-time greats” as power hitters, and not as hitters in general. Because if you don’t consider Molitor and Yount all-time greats as hitters, your definition of “all-time greats” is very, very narrow.

Abbott
Abbott
11 years ago

Yount, Molitor, Biggio

Mike G.
Mike G.
11 years ago

Yount, Sandberg, Raines

The Diamond King
The Diamond King
11 years ago

Murray, Yount, Smoltz

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago

Gwynn, Molitor, Murray

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
11 years ago

Yount, Murray, Raines

Darien
11 years ago

Yount, Raines, and Gwynn

wx
wx
11 years ago

Robin Yount, Tony Gwynn, Lou Whitaker

bstar
bstar
11 years ago

Yount, Molitor, Raines

opal611
opal611
11 years ago

For the 1955–Part Two election, I’m voting for:
-Robin Yount!
-Paul Molitor
-Tony Gwynn

Other top candidates I considered highly (and/or will consider in future rounds):
-Biggio (Hopefully only temporarily off ballot)
-Alomar (Hopefully only temporarily off ballot)
-Sandberg (Hopefully only temporarily off ballot)
-Smoltz
-Trammell
-Raines
-Whitaker
-Murray

Daniel Longmire
Daniel Longmire
11 years ago

Can someone please tell me how to use B-R to find all players born in the same year? I can only get to the Birthdays page, and I want to get ahead of the curve and see what sort of competition to expect in future ballots.

RJ
RJ
11 years ago

I got there by clicking the birth year on any player page, but if you click any year on the page I’ve linked below and then go “Other” and “Born this Year”, that gets you there.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/

Four Hall of Famers next year then…

aweb
aweb
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

Looks like ’51 and ’50 could be the years to reduce the backlog without adding even more to it.

Hartvig
Hartvig
11 years ago
Reply to  aweb

At a glace the best players I saw in 1952 were Fred Lynn & Darrell Porter so that would seem to be a year in which a holdover will very likely get in. But in 1951 you’ve not only got Dave Winfield, Dewey Evans, Goose Gossage, Buddy Bell, Cesar Cedeno, Dave Parker & Dennis Leonard- any of whom might at least see a little support-you’ve also got Bert Blyleven who’s pretty much the poster child for the all-time under-appreciated team from the numbers crowd. He ranks 11th among eligible pitchers in the Hall of Stats and 17th on JAWS (which… Read more »

Hartvig
Hartvig
11 years ago
Reply to  Hartvig

a few more years 1950- Frank White is the biggest name I can think of-I’m not actually looking at the page any longer- I’m guessing another year to clear some backlog 1949- Mike Schmidt plus Bobby Grich, Rick Reuschel, & Ted Simmons 1948- Steve Garvey, Dave Conception, George Foster-another backlog clearing year 1947- Johnny Bench, Nolan Ryan Carlton Fisk plus Darrell Evans, Thurman Munson 1946- Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, Rollie Fingers plus Bobby Bonds, Al Oliver, Bobby Murcer, Joe Rudi I won’t guarantee I caught everyone- I’m pretty sure I got all of the current Hall of Famers and I… Read more »

Daniel Longmire
Daniel Longmire
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

Thanks, RJ! That worked for me.