Circle of Greats: 1933 Balloting

This post is for voting and discussion in the 46th round of balloting for the Circle of Greats (COG).  This round is for voting on the group of players born in 1933.  Rules and lists are after the jump.

This round’s new group joins the holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full set of players eligible to receive your votes in this round of balloting.

As usual, this new group of 1933-born players, in order to join the eligible list, must have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers).

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players.  The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats.  Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility (unless they appear on 75% or more of the ballots, in which case they win six added eligibility rounds).  Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility.  Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM PST Thursday, February 13th, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM PST, Tuesday, February 11th.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: COG 1933 Vote Tally.  I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes.  Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted.  Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the new born-in-1933 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players.  The 13 current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility.  The new group of 1933 birth-year players are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors.  In total there are 16 players born in 1933 who met the “10 seasons played or 20 WAR” minimum requirement.

Holdovers:
Bob Gibson (eligibility guaranteed for 8 rounds)
Lou Whitaker (eligibility guaranteed for 8 rounds)
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 4 rounds)
Al Kaline (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Sandy Koufax (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Bobby Grich (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Kenny Lofton (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Juan Marichal (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Edgar Martinez (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Willie McCovey (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ron Santo (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1933, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Tito Francona
John Roseboro
Rocky Colavito
Jim Davenport
Al Spangler
Lenny Green
Norm Siebern
Jerry Lumpe
Gene Stephens
Lee Walls

Pitchers (born in 1933, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Orlando Pena
Ted Abernathy
Ken Johnson
Billy O’Dell
Bob Shaw
Frank Baumann

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Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
10 years ago

Slim pickin’s among the newbies. Here’s my ballot:

Bob Gibson
Al Kaline
Ron Santo

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Wait… how did Santo lose 2 rounds of eligibility last round? He had two rounds. He lost one. He should have one left. See comment #3 (and subsequent discussion) in the 1934 Pt. 2 balloting for the details. I’m beginning to think there’s a Doug-based conspiracy to keep Santo out of the COG. Cardinals fan are you, Doug? 😉

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

I’m right about Santo having a round, or I’m right about your conspiring to keep him out of the COG?

Or both?

😉

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

Bob Gibson, Al Kaline, John Smoltz

oneblankspace
oneblankspace
10 years ago

My quick analysis of the last round.

1. Clemente _ 62.50% (in)
2. Gibson _ _ 53.13% (+4)
3. Kaline _ _ 37.50% (+2)
4. Koufax _ _ 23.44% (+1)
5. Biggio _ _ 12.50% (+1)
5. Lofton _ _ 12.50% (+1)
5. Grich _ _ _12.50% (+1)
5. Marichal _ 12.50% (+1)
9. EMrtinez _ 10.94% (+1)
9. McCovey _ _10.94% (+1)
9. Sandberg _ 10.94% (+1)

Mike
Mike
10 years ago

Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal

bells
bells
10 years ago

Whew, I think we’re over the hump, for now. Funny that 13 names on the ballot seems like a relatively small amount. The 1931 part 2 election is gonna be kinda nuts, but I’m thinking that with dropping Murray, Allen and Killebrew, the people who want to support bubble candidates will be able to spread out their votes so that we’re not quite stretched so thin. I tossed a strategic vote out there to keep Edgar on, which seemed to pay off as he stayed on by 1 vote. With him and Santo and Grich all on the bubble I’ll… Read more »

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
10 years ago

Kaline, Santo, Gibson

mosc
mosc
10 years ago

Santo should sail in via this exercise, bout time he gets some love. That said, he’s not good enough for my ballot:

Koufax, Gibson, Kaline

JEV
JEV
10 years ago

Koufax, McCovey, Kaline

Jeff Harris
Jeff Harris
10 years ago

Kaline, Gibson, Whitaker

TheGoof
TheGoof
10 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Harris

Considering that Tiger-centric vote, I’m guessing you aren’t the Jeff Harris from Maryland I am related to.

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
10 years ago

Kaline, Gibson, Koufax.

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
10 years ago
Reply to  Mike HBC

You know what? Screw it. I’m gonna rip half a page* right out of the book of all the voters I dislike. I’m changing my vote to Koufax, Smoltz, and Bob Shaw, who both made his only All-Star appearance and set the MLB record for balks in a game as a Brave.

*I say “half a page” because at least I’m not voting for the 12th-best player on the ballot just to keep him around; plus, whichever obvious choice doesn’t make it this round undoubtedly will next round, so whatever.

RJ
RJ
10 years ago
Reply to  Mike HBC

“12th-best player on the ballot”

You mean Koufax? 🙂

mosc
mosc
10 years ago
Reply to  RJ

Boo!

10WAR seasons are SO commonplace. Sheesh. Everybody’s got two of em. What a shlub.

RJ
RJ
10 years ago
Reply to  mosc

I was just kidding around mosc (and poking a little fun at the concept of career WAR as gospel); I’m all for Koufax in the CoG. But everyone here has different opinions of who does and doesn’t belong, and if somebody doesn’t want to vote for him (or anyone else I think belongs) I’m not going to assume they are acting in bad faith.

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
10 years ago
Reply to  RJ

BOOM! Well-played, RJ. And I kept him on my ballot just because he’s Sandy Koufax. He can be on my ballot always and forever (except for 1931).

Stubby
10 years ago

Gibson, Whitaker, Lofton

Hartvig
Hartvig
10 years ago

Kaline, Santo, Sandberg

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

@19/Dave,

Colavito was a very good player, probably a better HOF candidate amongst OFers than actual HOFers Chick Hafey, Lloyd Waner, Ross Youngs and Tommy McCarthy; about even with Heinie Manush and Hack Wilson. However, I don’t think he’s really close to being a HOFer, and even further away from the COG.

If you neutralize Wilson’s stats to 1958/Cleveland, he doesn’t look a whole lot better than Colavito.

bstar
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

I heard yesterday that when Ralph Kiner (RIP) retired he was 6th on the all-time HR list (behind Babe, Foxx, Ott, Gehrig, and Ballgame).

Now he’s 74th.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

As far as I know Gene Stephens is one of 2 players with 3 hits in an inning. He did it on 6-18-53 while playing for the Red Sox. The other is Johnny Damon on 6-27-2003, also with the Red Sox,

David Horwich
David Horwich
10 years ago

According to baseball-almanac.com, on 9/6/1883 3 members of the Chicago White Stockings (i.e. the franchise now named the Cubs) achieved the feat, too – Tom Burns, Fred Pfeffer, and Ned Williamson.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago
Reply to  David Horwich

Thanks for the update, I meant to say since 1901.

Bix
Bix
10 years ago

Gibson, Koufax, Marichal

wx
wx
10 years ago

Al Kaline, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal

ATarwerdi96
ATarwerdi96
10 years ago

Bob Gibson, Al Kaline, Ron Santo

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
10 years ago

So far, 14 ballots cast.

On those 14, nine of them include exclusively three of the set Gibson, Kaline, Santo, Marichal, and Koufax. All 14 ballots include at least two from that list. McCovey, Smoltz, Whitaker, Lofton, and Sandberg round out the voting. I’m not suggesting it’ll necessarily be a “tight” election; it’s just interesting to look at it and see how top-heavy and competitive the ballot is right now.

Stubby
10 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Doom

“All 14 ballots include at least two from that list.”

Not so, Doc. Mine was among the first 14 ballots cast and I only had one from your top group–Gibson. My other votes went to Lofton and Whitaker.

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
10 years ago
Reply to  Stubby

Yikes. This is NOT my thread. My reading comprehension is mui mal right now. I’m just gonna blame it on a rough week at work and leave it at that.

MJ
MJ
10 years ago

Al Kaline, Bob Gibson, and making his reappearance after an absence of two rounds, Lou Whitaker.

Nadig
Nadig
10 years ago

Gibson, Kaline, Martinez.

KalineCountry Ron
KalineCountry Ron
10 years ago

The historically underrated + pre-eminent Rightfielder in A.L. history Al Kaline.

Lou Whitaker.
Bobby Grich

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago

Gibson, Kaline, Koufax

Chris C
Chris C
10 years ago

Gibson, Biggio, Edgar.

Chris C
Chris C
10 years ago
Reply to  Chris C

Looks like my vote wasn’t counted in the spreadsheet.

Chris C
Chris C
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Hmm. I was downgraded from the C’s to between the F’s and G’s. I better pick things up. 🙂

jajacob
jajacob
10 years ago
Reply to  Chris C

I got upgraded to line 42 🙂

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
10 years ago

Highest pitcher WAR, zero games started:

8.2 Hiller
8.1 Goose
7.4 Eichhorn
6.5 Sutter
6.2 Kern
6.2 ABERNATHY
6.1 Radatz

This works for any reliever, actually, not just zero GS.
The lowest GS to top 6.2 is Luis Tiant’s 19 in 1972

He registerd a 6.6 in 43 games.
12 CG
12 GF

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Looks like you got Hiller and Goose reversed.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
10 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Higest ERA+, 100+ IP:

328 Sutter (107.1)
299 Abernathy (106.1)
291 Pedro (217)
283 Hiller (125.1)
282 Dutch Leonard (224.2)
268 Red Munger (121)

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
10 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Yes, Richard, made that mistake.
I’m doing this with a 101 fever. Sorry.

Also that last list, before Red Munger there is:

272 Ferdie Schupp
271 Maddux

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
10 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Schupp’s 0.90 in 1916 (140 IP) is the lowest era with more than 75 IP.

His 4.4 WAR that season also exceeds his career WAR (4.3)

bstar
10 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Tim Keefe had an 0.86 ERA in 1880 in 105 IP. His ERA+ was 293, #1 all-time.

It looks like NL clubs played around 82 games in 1880, so Keefe’s season qualifies since he exceeded the 1 inning per team game minimum.

David Horwich
David Horwich
10 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

One thing to note about Keefe’s record is that slightly over half the runs scored in the NL in 1880 were unearned – his RAA was 2.31. I don’t know if anyone’s ever calculated RAA+, but if so I would guess Keefe would no longer be the record-holder. As for Ferdie Schupp – not only did he put up 4.4 WAR in 1916, he followed that up with 4.5 WAR in 1917 – and yet still ended up with less career WAR than either of those two seasons taken individually. Yes, he was pretty terrible in his career except for… Read more »

Gary Bateman
Gary Bateman
10 years ago

Gibson, Kaline, Marichal

Low T
Low T
10 years ago

Kaline for the win, Grich and Santo to fight off elimination.

bstar
10 years ago

Kaline, Lofton, Biggio

JasonZ
10 years ago

BStar-

Another nugget from Kiner’s Korner…

From 1931-1997 the top single season
home run total in the National League was
54, by Kiner in 1949.

Ralph Kiner was one of two NL players to exceed 50 homers twice during the above 66 year span.

Some chap named Mays is the other.

bstar
10 years ago
Reply to  JasonZ

Jason, I was thinking about the twice-over-50-HR thing two nights ago and in my mind I decided it was Johnny Mize and Mays who did it. Thanks for the correction!

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
10 years ago
Reply to  JasonZ

There were three, actually. You forgot George Foster in ’77.

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
10 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Doom

And star is right: Johnny Mize, too.

Now that I look, I see that JasonZ @49 has already made this point.

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
10 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Doom

Oh… you said TWICE. Whew. I’m just gonna shut up now…

PaulE
PaulE
10 years ago

McCovey
Sandberg
Santo

Scary Tuna
Scary Tuna
10 years ago

Gibson, Kaline, Whitaker

JasonZ
10 years ago

Mize with 51 in 1947 and George Foster’s iconic 52 in 1977 are the only other NL’ers to do it even once between 1931-1997.

koma
koma
10 years ago

John Smoltz, Sandy Koufax, Craig Biggio

Francisco
Francisco
10 years ago

Marichal, Gibson, Kaline

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

Gibson
Kaline
Koufax

jajacob
jajacob
10 years ago

Kaline, Gibson, Lofton

The last is not third on my list.

cubbies
cubbies
10 years ago

kaline, gibson, koufax

latefortheparty
latefortheparty
10 years ago

Al Kaline
Bob Gibson
Bobby Grich

opal611
opal611
10 years ago

For the 1933 election, I’m voting for:
-Ryne Sandberg
-Edgar Martinez
-John Smoltz

Other top candidates I considered highly (and/or will consider in future rounds):
-Biggio
-Gibson
-Whitaker
-Grich
-Lofton
-Santo
-McCovey
-Kaline

Detredw97
Detredw97
10 years ago

Gibson, Kaline, and Koufax

Jeff Hill
Jeff Hill
10 years ago

Gibson, Santo, Lofton

Josh
Josh
10 years ago

Bob Gibson, Al Kaline, Juan Marichal

I may have to start throwing some votes Smoltz’s way, he’s starting to lose eligibility and if he doesn’t get 10% soon he’s gonna get kicked out in 1931 part 2.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
10 years ago

Vote:

Koufax
Lofton
Smoltz

Hub Kid
Hub Kid
10 years ago

Al Kaline, Ron Santo, Bobby Grich

Bill Johnson
Bill Johnson
10 years ago

Whitaker, McCovey, and Rocky “don’t knock the Rock” Colavito.

John Z
John Z
10 years ago

Kaline for the win..
Grich for additional rounds
McCovey because he needs some love

Dr. Remulak
Dr. Remulak
10 years ago

Biggio, Gibson, Marichal.

oneblankspace
oneblankspace
10 years ago

Now I am ready to vote.

CBiggio
BGibson

and the Detroit outfielder who led the 1961 Tigers with 45 HR

RColavito

BryanM
BryanM
10 years ago

Gibson. Whitaker. Marichal

BillH
BillH
10 years ago

Juan Marichal
Willie McCovey
Bob Gibson

David Horwich
David Horwich
10 years ago

Gibson, Martinez, Sandberg

T-Bone
T-Bone
10 years ago

Sandberg
Santo
Koufax