Circle of Greats: 1932 Balloting

This post is for voting and discussion in the 47th round of balloting for the Circle of Greats (COG).  This round is for voting on the group of players born in 1932.  Rules and lists are after the jump.

This round’s new group joins the holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full set of players eligible to receive your votes in this round of balloting.

As usual, this new group of 1932-born players, in order to join the eligible list, must have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers).

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players.  The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats.  Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility (unless they appear on 75% or more of the ballots, in which case they win six added eligibility rounds).  Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility.  Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM PST Thursday, February 20th, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM PST, Tuesday, February 18th.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: COG 1932 Vote Tally.  I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes.  Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted.  Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the new born-in-1932 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players.  The 12 current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility.  The new group of 1932 birth-year players are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors.  In total there are 15 players born in 1932 who meet the “10 seasons played or 20 WAR” minimum requirement.

Holdovers:
Lou Whitaker (eligibility guaranteed for 8 rounds)
Al Kaline (eligibility guaranteed for 6 rounds)
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 4 rounds)
Sandy Koufax (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Bobby Grich (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Kenny Lofton (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Juan Marichal (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Edgar Martinez (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Willie McCovey (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ron Santo (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1932, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Maury Wills
Woodie Held
Eddie Bressoud
Don Blasingame
Wes Covington
Jim King
Dick Stuart
Eddie Kasko
Harry Chiti

Pitchers (born in 1932, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Ron Kline
Johnny Podres
Billy Hoeft
Mike Fornieles
Hal Woodeshick
Bud Daley

Quick quiz: Excluding pitchers, who is the only player besides Maury Wills to win the MVP award in a season with OPS+ below 100?

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Joe
Joe
10 years ago

Peckinpaugh for the quiz?

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
10 years ago
Reply to  Joe

I’m curious why it was Peckinpaugh in particular that won the award off the Senators that year? I know that under then-current MVP rules:

1) Walter Johnson wasn’t eligible, because he won the year before
2) only one player per team could be selected

But, but, BUT… Coveleski, Sam Rice, and in particular Goose Goslin seem far more qualifued than Roger P. Was P. regarded as an oustanding and influential leader, and a great defensive SS (which was probably true)?

bstar
10 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

Part of it had to be the beastly September Peckinpaugh had in 1925: .382/.452/.618/1.070 (tOPS+ of 186).

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

LA: If you read Peck’s bio you will see what you surmised about him was true. He was an outstanding fielder and was described as the calmest man in the game and he had leadership qualities. He may have been friendly with the writers who in turn took advantage of the opportunity to give him the MVP award. After all they saw him as a veteran shortstop who played a key role in helping the Senators win the pennant, even if he only did play in 126 games.

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
10 years ago

MVP = OPS+<100?:

Marty Marion, 1944 – OPS+ of 90 – maybe they wanted to spread it around, instead of giving it to Musial again?

Hartvig
Hartvig
10 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

I actually got Marion on my second guess. I figured it had to be someone up the middle defensively and I knew that Scooter & Ziolo had big offensive seasons in the years that they won it (big for them anyways)- what got me was Ozzie Smith- I didn’t think that he had won any MVP’s but I wasn’t absolutely certain so I checked him out first.

bstar
10 years ago
Reply to  Hartvig

I guessed Zoilo and Pee Wee, though I didn’t remember Reese winning one (he didn’t). Turns out most of Pee Wee’s seasons were with an OPS+ barely over 100, not under.

Mike L
Mike L
10 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

My dad (who was a NY Giant fan) always said Marty Marion was the best shortstop (fielding). 1944 was a weird year. Middle of WWII, the Cards ran away with it and won the World Series. That’s a very odd roster for that period. 8 regulars, none over 29, and the pitchers weren’t old either. Several of their (young) regulars had short careers after the war was over. Maybe some political sensitivity. Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, Bob Feller, Hank Greenberg, Joe Gordon, Johnny Mize, etc. were already serving by 1943. Just speculating.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago
Reply to  Mike L

Marion was known as Mister Shortstop.

Steven
Steven
10 years ago

And that field he played on (Sportsman’s Park)-even in an era of unmanicured turf-was regarded as the worst infield in the majors.

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
10 years ago

Marion did fairly well in HOF voting- peaked at 40%, on the ballot until he wasn’t eligible anymore (though it’s hard to figure out sometimes, because of every-other-year voting).

Very few players who have got 40% or over in the BBWAA voting are not eventually in the HOF – Hodges, Wills, Garvey, Oliva, and Marion are the only ones that come to mind that are not in the HOF now.

David Horwich
David Horwich
10 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

Also Jack Morris, of course.

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
10 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

@98/DH;

Very perceptive, I forgot that Morris is off the ballot now. Lee Smith has been over 40%; he has three years left on the HOF ballot.

The “how in the world did he get THAT MUCH HOF support?” award probably goes to Hank Gowdy, who was a decent but far-from-great catcher pre-WWII (Jaws HOF rating of 94th/ career WAR of 18.2). He peaked at 35% in 1955, and got votes every year except one from 1937-1960.

David Horwich
David Horwich
10 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

Roger Maris also cracked the 40% mark. So the complete list of players who 1) received at least 40% of the BBWAA vote, 2) aren’t in the HoF, and 3) are no longer on the BBWAA ballot is:

Garvey, Hodges, Marion, Maris, Morris, Oliva, Wills

Also to note, there are 5 players still on the ballot who’ve received at least 40% of the vote:

Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza, Raines, Smith

ATarwerdi96
10 years ago

Al Kaline, Ron Santo, Bobby Grich

Bix
Bix
10 years ago

Koufax, Biggio, Marichal

wx
wx
10 years ago

Al Kaline, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal

bcholm
bcholm
10 years ago

Koufax, Santo, Kaline

Chris C
Chris C
10 years ago

Kaline – vote for the most deserving
Biggio – because I always vote for Biggio
Edgar – because he shouldn’t have to go through redemption again

Jeff Harris
Jeff Harris
10 years ago

Kaline, Whitaker, Smoltz

John Z
John Z
10 years ago

Kaline for the win……..again!!!
McCovey ROY, MVP, First Ballot HOF, ALl Star……and boarder line COG????
and
Marichal 6 Twenty win seasons, and a Marion..ish post season WHIP….

jajacob
jajacob
10 years ago

kaline
whitaker
lofton

Abbott
Abbott
10 years ago

Grich, Biggio, McCovey

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

@16/Doug,

JIm Rice in 1983 also led in RBI (126), TB (344) and GIDP (31). Maybe it didn’t show up in the the B-R P-I because he tied Cooper in RBI, and Armas in GIDP.

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Wasn’t Harry Chiti also traded for himself?

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago
Reply to  Artie Z.

Yes he was, as were Archie Cobin, Clint Courtney, John MacDonald, Dickie Noles and Mark Ross.

bells
bells
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

re: Podres giving up HRs on his birthday in both regular season and WS… I wonder how many players have even played games on the same day in the regular season and the world series… with the multiple rounds, I’d imagine it hasn’t happened much since 1969, strike-delayed years aside. Anyone know how common it was before that? How much of delay was there between the regular season and WS, usually?

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago
Reply to  bells

Maury Wills and Hal Naragon played regular season and WS games on their birthdays.

David Horwich
David Horwich
10 years ago
Reply to  bells

bells @ 72 –

From 1946-68, there were usually 2 days off between the end of the season and the start of the World Series; the season ended on the last Sunday in September, occasionally the first Sunday of October, and the series start on the following Wednesday.

Exceptions were 1948 (only 1 day off following the AL playoff), 1951 (no days off for the Giants after beating the Dodgers, but then they didn’t have to travel very far), and 1962 (no days off for the Giants, who opened the WS home the day after beating the Dodgers in LA).

bells
bells
10 years ago
Reply to  David Horwich

Great, thanks! That’s all interesting info. Surprising if only one player at all has homered on his birthday in the WS.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago

I haven’t looked but is Jimmie one of the other 4 players to catch a game in 3 seasons prior to his 20th birthday.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

I see you assumed I meant Jimmie Foxx. 🙂

Steven
Steven
10 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Was Tim McCarver one of the young catchers?

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago
Reply to  Steven

Looks like bonus baby Nick Koback was the other one. He never played again in the majors after age 19.

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

Al Kaline, Edgar Martinez, John Smoltz

MJ
MJ
10 years ago

Al Kaline, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich

KalineCountry Ron
10 years ago

The Great and historically under-rated pre-eminent Rightfielder in American League history Al Kaline.

The Great Sandy Koufax…. as Lou Johnson said, “You’re the greatest Sandy, you’re the greatest”.

Lou Whitaker.

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
10 years ago

Kaline, Santo, Marichal

Hopefully some holdovers build eligibility this round.

Hartvig
Hartvig
10 years ago

Kaline, Santo, Sandberg

Stuart’s B-R page is really worth checking out if only to look at his defensive metrics. And yes- at least according to everyone who saw him play- he really was that awful.

I think Will’s extraordinarily high SB% success rate had more to do with pitchers & catchers of his era than with his being better than say Raines or Morgan or others that came later.

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
10 years ago

Welcome back to my ballot, Bobby! Long time, no see.

Al Kaline
Ron Santo
Bobby Grich

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

Kaline
Koufax
Biggio

mosc
mosc
10 years ago

I’m voting for Koufax. I’ll wait until the last minute to try and spoil some multi-person tie for ninth place.

Chris C
Chris C
10 years ago
Reply to  mosc

No need. It’s likely the entire holdover list will get 10%. The ninth place qualification won’t apply.

David Horwich
David Horwich
10 years ago
Reply to  mosc

That’s either strategic anti-strategic voting, or anti-strategic strategic voting, but I can’t decide which. Although as Chris C points out it probably won’t matter this round.

jeff hill
jeff hill
10 years ago

Kaline, Lofton, Santo

Francisco
Francisco
10 years ago

Marichal, Kaline, Biggio

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
10 years ago

Kaline, Koufax, Marichal

latefortheparty
latefortheparty
10 years ago

Al Kaline
Sandy Koufax
Bobby Grich

bstar
10 years ago

Kaline, Koufax, Lofton

DaveR
DaveR
10 years ago

Kaline, Koufax, and, uh, Kasco? No, make that McCovey hitting for Kasco.

Gary Bateman
Gary Bateman
10 years ago

Kaline, Marichal, Santo

Insert Name Here
Insert Name Here
10 years ago

I’ve been away for a bit… but I’m back! Looks like I only missed two rounds… glad to see Gibson and Clemente got in! Two personal favorites of all time! Anyway, without further ado… Initial vote: 1. Al Kaline (6.8 WAR/162 during 13-yr peak of 1955-67) 2. Ron Santo (7.0 WAR/162 during 10-yr peak of 1963-72) 3. Kenny Lofton (6.7 WAR/162 during 8-yr peak of 1992-99) Ranking of some others: 4. Sandy Koufax (7.8 WAR/162 during 6-yr peak of 1961-66) 5. Juan Marichal (7.1 WAR/162 during 7-yr peak of 1963-69) 6. Bobby Grich (6.6 WAR/162 during 12-yr peak of 1972-83)… Read more »

Stubby
10 years ago

Kaline, Lofton, Wills

Kaline’s the best on the ballot. He’s going in, as he should. I’d vote for Whitaker, but he’s got 8 rounds saved up. Lofton’s only got the one. Wills, I think, was an important player in the history of the game. He was Rickey Henderson before there was a Rickey Henderson. And here he sits without a single vote so far. And that just ain’t right, in my book. Maury Wills would win you ballgames. Ultimately, that’s the name of the game.

Nick Pain
Nick Pain
10 years ago
Reply to  Stubby

Wills may have had the speed of Henderson, but Wills’ highest qualifying season OBP (.355) is lower than Henderson’s lowest qualifying season (.358).

BillH
BillH
10 years ago

Marichal, McCovey, Koufax

David Horwich
David Horwich
10 years ago

Martinez, Sandberg, Santo

koma
koma
10 years ago

John Smoltz, Sandy Koufax, Craig Biggio

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
10 years ago

Kaline, Koufax, Smoltz.

RonG
RonG
10 years ago

Marichal, McCovey, Koufax

TJay
TJay
10 years ago

Kaline, Koufax, Marichal

Luis Gomez
Luis Gomez
10 years ago

Marichal, Martinez, McCovey.

JEV
JEV
10 years ago

Koufax, McCovey, Kaline

Dr. Remulak
Dr. Remulak
10 years ago

Biggio, Kaline, Koufax.

Scary Tuna
Scary Tuna
10 years ago

Kaline, Koufax, Whitaker.

--bill
--bill
10 years ago

Kaline, Koufax, Grich

robbs
robbs
10 years ago

Kaline, Koufax, Marichal

T-Bone
T-Bone
10 years ago

Sandberg
Santo
Marichal

Nadig
Nadig
10 years ago

Kaline, Martinez, Koufax.

Josh
Josh
10 years ago

Kaline, Marichal, Smoltz

PaulE
PaulE
10 years ago

McCovey
Sandberg
Santo

bells
bells
10 years ago

Vote based on cumulative ranking on 3 measures: WAR, WAA+ and JAWS. Number beside the name represents the total ranking; if a player has a ‘3’, it means he’s #1 for all 3 measures of those on the ballot, if he has a 36 it means he’s #12. Numbers in parentheses are rankings of the respective measures… Kaline 3 (1 1 1) Grich 8 (3 2 3) Santo 9 (4 3 2) Whitaker 12 (2 4 6) Martinez 18 (6 5 7) Smoltz 21 (5 6 10) Lofton 22 (7 7 8) Sandberg 22 (8 9 5) Marichal 26 (11… Read more »

Darien
10 years ago

Kaline, Santo, and Lofton

Bill Johnson
Bill Johnson
10 years ago

Whitaker, McCovey, and Marichal

Michael
Michael
10 years ago

Kaline, Koufax, Biggio