Circle of Greats 1936 Results: Perry Wins, Despite Spitting Image

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After appearing on around 40% of the ballots submitted in each of his first four rounds of eligibility, a level that had not been quite high enough to earn induction, Gaylord Perry broke though this time, appearing on over 50% of the ballots, solidly ahead of Ron Santo, who finished second in the voting. Perry becomes the 42nd player inducted into the High Heat Stats Circle of Greats. More on Gaylord and the voting after the jump.

Gaylord Perry pitched for the Cleveland Indians for only four seasons, but over the first three of those seasons his Wins Above Replacement total (baseball-reference version) was 27.7 WAR (including 27.5 pitching WAR and 0.2 batting WAR). Here are the highest three-consecutive-year WAR totals by a Cleveland Indians ballplayer:

T1. Gaylord Perry (1972-1974) and Bob Feller (1939-1941) 27.7
3. Shoeless Joe Jackson (1911-1913) 26.4
4. Nap Lajoie (1906-1908) 25.4
5. Stan Coveleski (1918-1920) 24.9
6. Nap Lajoie (1908-1910) 24.1
7. Stan Coveleski (1917-1919) 24.0
8. Tris Speaker (1921-23) 22.3

*********************************************

The three pitchers with the most career regular season innings pitched over the last one hundred years of major league baseball are Phil Niekro, Nolan Ryan and Gaylord Perry. These three combined for 73 seasons of pitching in the majors, 2,179 regular season starts and 956 regular season Wins. They faced a combined 67,205 batters in the regular season and pitched a combined total of 16,140 regular season innings. Unfortunately, the three combined for zero World Series starts, zero World Series Wins, two and one-third innings pitched in the World Series, and ten batters faced in the World Series.

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–Of the born-in-1936 guys, Harmon Killebrew (by reputation one of the nicest guys ever to make the Hall of Fame) received substantial support, quite enough to return and just enough to gain an extra round of eligibility that allows him to avoid bubble status. Meanwhile, Don Drysdale just missed getting a return invitation to the ballot, falling short of the needed 10% support by a single vote.
–Ron Santo’s support bounced up quite a bit this round, well higher than it’s been since his first appearance. Ron moves off the bubble.
–Support for Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker also bounced up this round, though not quite enough to get to the 25% needed to earn an extra round of eligibility to add to their stores.
–On the other hand, support for Gaylord Perry’s longtime teammates, Willie McCovey and Juan Marichal, dropped off some this round. Apparently there was only so much room for 1960s Giants in voters’ hearts this time. And in any event, neither Marichal nor McCovey is in immediate danger.

The full spreadsheet showing this round’s vote tally is here: COG 1936 Vote Tally.

The vote summary for recent Circle of Greats voting rounds is here: COG Vote Summary 2 . An archive with fuller details of the 1968 through 1939 rounds is here: COG 1968-1939 Vote Summary . In both cases, raw vote totals for each past round appears on Sheet 1 and the percentage totals for each past round on Sheet 2.

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Here’s the Circle of Greats membership thus far, currently in order of date of birth, from earlier to later:
Brooks Robinson
Gaylord Perry
Phil Niekro
Carl Yastrzemski
Pete Rose
Ferguson Jenkins
Joe Morgan
Tom Seaver
Steve Carlton
Rod Carew
Jim Palmer
Reggie Jackson
Nolan Ryan
Johnny Bench
Carlton Fisk
Mike Schmidt
Bert Blyleven
George Brett
Gary Carter
Ozzie Smith
Robin Yount
Paul Molitor
Alan Trammell
Wade Boggs
Rickey Henderson
Tim Raines
Tony Gwynn
Cal Ripken
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Barry Larkin
Barry Bonds
Tom Glavine
Greg Maddux
Curt Schilling
Larry Walker
Jeff Bagwell and Frank Thomas
Mike Piazza
Mike Mussina
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Mariano Rivera

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David Horwich

10 years ago

As we embark on some “heavyweight years” in the voting, here are a couple of observations on the first 42 rounds of voting: So far exactly half of the CoG electees have been elected on their first ballot (Bench, Blyleven, Bonds, Brett, Carew, GCarter, Clemens, Griffey, Henderson, RJackson, Jenkins, RJohnson, Maddux, Morgan, Piazza, Ripken, BRobinson, Schmidt, Seaver, Yaz, Yount). The rest of the electees and the number of ballots it took for them to get elected: 2nd ballot: 6 (Bagwell, Boggs, Carlton, Fisk, Niekro, Rivera) 3rd ballot: 2 (Rose, OSmith) 4th ballot: 1 (Thomas) 5th ballot: 1 (Perry) 7th ballot:… Read more »

oneblankspace

10 years ago

Reply to David Horwich

I originally read the list of second-ballot COG members as five players instead of six…

David Horwich

10 years ago

Reply to oneblankspace

Heh. Yes, I saw that fortuitous conjunction of names, wondered if anyone else would notice. By the way, if we continue to elect pitchers at the current rate, we’ll end up with 41-42 pitchers by the time we’re done, which I think is a few too many. But the rate will likely drop, since we’ve (mostly) worked our way through two great generations of pitchers, the Clemens/Maddux generation of the ’90s, and have just a few more to sort out from the Seaver/Carlton generation of the ’60s and ’70s. After that there are far fewer notable pitchers in the birth… Read more »

Mike L

10 years ago

Perry Wins? I guess I expectorated that…

Hartvig

10 years ago

My only “disappointment” was that Grich fell one vote short of picking up an extra ballots eligibility. Things are going to get pretty crowded for the next few votes.

Hub Kid

10 years ago

The COG is doing a good job of being more selective than the Hall of Fame… although now we have 3 more slots, I think.

By my count, we, the COG voters, have dropped 13 Hall of Famers from the active ballot so far. Here they are in order of birth year. Unless otherwise noted they only lasted one round on the ballot:

Alomar (40 rounds!)
Puckett
Dawson
Eckersley (2 rounds)
Rice
Gossage (2 rounds)
Winfield (8 rounds: 6 + 1 Redemption Round victory + 2 more)
Hunter
Sutton
Stargell (4 rounds?)
Brock
Billy Williams
Drysdale

bells

10 years ago

Reply to Hub Kid

Not that it matters, but I seem to remember from memory that Dawson lasted 2 rounds; he just got zero votes the second round. Anyone else remember this?

Author

birtelcom

10 years ago

Reply to bells

Good memory, bells. Andre got five votes in his debut appearance on the ballot, which would not normally get him asked back. But that 1954 round was the one time we’ve ever dropped below 50 total ballots cast, so Dawson eked out a return engagement. And then got zero votes in the 1953 round.

Hub Kid

10 years ago

Reply to bells

thanks for noticing, bells, and birtelcom for recounting the record. it makes me feel better about COG voting, too, since I think Dawson’s career was certainly better than Puckett’s, or Rice’s, for example.

mosc

10 years ago

25 man roster and lineups (17 guys get cut): S1: Clemens S2: Johnson S3: Seaver S4: Maddux S5: Carlton LRP: Ryan (rubber arm) RP1: Palmer RP2: Schilling RP3: Blyleven (need a lefty) CP: Rivera Vs RHP 1) Henderson LF 2) Bonds DH 3) Boggs 3B 4) Griffey CF 5) Brett 1B 6) Jackson RF 7) Morgan 2B 8) Ripken SS 9) Fisk C Vs LHP 1) Henderson RF 2) Bonds LF 3) Thomas DH 4) Bagwell 1B 5) Schmitt 3B 6) Bench C 7) Molitor 2B 8) Griffey CF 9) Larkin SS Cut: Glavine, Jenkins, Mussina, Niekro, Perry, Piazza, GCarter,… Read more »

mosc

10 years ago

Reply to mosc

Here’s a single season peak player list in honor of Koufax (Spoilers, he didn’t make it): C Bench 1972 1B Gehrig 1927 2B Hornsby 1924 (tempted to take Morgan in 1975) 3B Al Rosen 1953 SS Ripken 1991 LF Yaz 1967 CF Mantle 1956 RF Ruth 1923 DH Bonds 2001 And the more interesting pitching: SP1 Gooden 1985 SP2 Carlton 1972 SP3 Clemens 1997 SP4 Martinez 2000 SP5 Gibson 1968 LRP Wood 1971 (77 Relief appearances the previous year, 2 that year, I’m calling that perfect long relief) RP1 Sutter 1977 RP2 Quisenberry 1983 RP3 Rivera 1996 CP Gossage 1975… Read more »

bstar

10 years ago

Reply to mosc

John Hiller’s 8.1 WAR as a reliever in ’73 might deserve a mention.

mosc

10 years ago

Reply to bstar

Oiy. I guess Mo looses out!

mosc

10 years ago

Reply to mosc

Just for comparison, here is Koufax’s last 4 years on the road (randomized with gibson’s 1968 mixed in, see if it stands out for you. 14W 4L 1.96 ERA 20 GS 14 CG 2 SHO 141.1 IP 157 SO 0.982 WHIP 12W 5L 2.72 ERA 21 GS 13 CG 2 SHO 165.2 IP 127 SO 1.008 WHIP 12W 3L 0.81 ERA 16 GS 15 CG 7 SHO 144.2 IP 121 SO 0.906 WHIP 14W 4L 2.31 ERA 23 GS 10 CG 5 SHO 167.1 IP 162 SO 0.992 WHIP 7W 3L 2.93 ERA 14 GS 03 CG 1 SHO 95.1… Read more »

bells

10 years ago

birtelcom, have you decided what is happening when you’re gone soon? I seem to remember Hartvig offering to step up and cover a round or two of the CoG, but I don’t recall any resolution. I mean, the CoG is your baby, so you can do what you wish, but obviously in the off-season it’s an exciting thing to talk about, and these ballots have been quite interesting lately, so as a fan of the site and contributor to the threads it would be great to see some continuity. So I’m just curious (and of course I enjoy Hartvig’s writing… Read more »

Author

birtelcom

10 years ago

Reply to bells

So far as I know, our fearless leader Andy is the only one who can authorize new writers on the site, and I haven’t heard anything on this from him. What I could do before I go off on my travels (I’ll be gone most of February, starting Feb 1) is I could create an “open thread” post for all COG-related discussion, and to the extent Hartvig or others would like to use the thread to conduct one or more voting rounds via the comments while I’m gone, please feel free to do so. It’s probably not the ideal way… Read more »

Dr. Doom

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Ah, yes. Perhaps we don’t “need” it. But that doesn’t mean we don’t “read” it every time! Perhaps an open forum is far from ideal, but it may be better than nothing if you’re going to be gone a whole month. On the other hand, absence does make the heart grow fonder. So if we just postpone a few rounds of voting, it wouldn’t be the end of the world. I will miss it though.

p.s. Next time, remember to take your major vacations during the summer, when we actually have baseball being played. 😉

bells

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Yeah, I love the full blog posts. I suppose another workaround, if people were amenable, would be for someone to volunteer to write the main post and email it to someone who is authorized to post, and they could copy/paste (and maybe fill in the links to players etc). I don’t know how easy or practical it is, but it would allow for a full blog post for each voting and results thread. Just throwing it out there, of course it’s fine if it just takes a hiatus too.

Voomo Zanzibar

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

_________________________________________________________

No COG.
No problem.
We’ll just spend all of February analyzing A-Rod’s urine.

bells

10 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

I don’t know much about advanced metrics for urine analysis.

I would imagine that any advanced analysis is showing A-Rod as crushing the league in Whining Above Replacement in the last 6 months, though.

Hartvig

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

I may have to withdraw my offer to try and run the election anyways. I’ve just had something dumped into my lap that may keep me busy thru the first week of February and possibly beyond.

Sorry ’bout that.

Editor

Doug

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

birtelcom,

I can do the elections in February, if you’d like.

Author

birtelcom

10 years ago

Reply to Doug

By all means, Doug, you are completely welcome to do so. And feel free to do so in whatever style, format frequency, etc. you feel comfortable. I’ll run the 1934 Part 1 election to its conclusion, including a results post. Then it’s all yours till I get back in late February. Of course, by then the fans may be clamoring for the relief pitcher to stay in the game.

Editor

Doug

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Got it.

The hard part will be the “punny” headline for the Results post.

Dr. Doom

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Um, birt, we follow baseball rules around here. You exit the game once, there’s no coming back. 😉

Richard Chester

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Let’s just say that Doug will be a courtesy writer (players were once allowed to leave the game for a courtesy runner and then return to the game).

Mike L

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

I see this as more in the line of a “hands man” brought in to defend against the onside kick. He’s not there to replace the swift and graceful flash of muscle and sinew offered by the return man. Just to fall on the ball and make sure possession is not lost. And, if the course of recovering it, he happens to see an opening, he dashes for the finish line….

Dr. Doom

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Has the courtesy runner rule ever been stricken? Or can you still do that, only no one requests it anymore?

Author

birtelcom

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Here’s some history on courtesy runners, from Retrosheet: http://www.retrosheet.org/courtesy.htm.

oneblankspace

10 years ago

Cy Young Award, both leagues:

G.Perry 1972 AL, 1978 NL
Pd.Martinez 1997 NL; 1999, 2000 AL
Ran.Johnson 1995 AL; 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 NL
R.Clemens 1986, 1987, 1991, 1997, 1998, 2001 AL; 2004 NL
R.Halladay 2003 AL; 2010 NL

For 16 years after he retired, Perry was the only pitcher with a Cy Young in each league.

no statistician but

10 years ago

Reply to oneblankspace

Not to belittle the accomplishment, but very few, as in hardly any, top flight pitchers spent their quality years in more than one league prior to the free agency revolution. Offhand I can’t think of any except Perry, who migrated from the Giants to the Indians in 1972. How did he get waived out of the league? Anybody know the story?

Voomo Zanzibar

10 years ago

Reply to no statistician but

They didn’t need waivers for an off-season trade.
Pretty sure of that.

The Giants sure got the short end of that deal.

Perry’s first three years with the Indians:

11.0 WAR
7.9
8.6

McDowell with the Giants:

-0.4
-0.1 , and sold mid-season for a case of Gatorade

Voomo Zanzibar

10 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

Better than Gene Tenace not being able to throw the ball back to the mound because it was too greasy: ___________________ from chicagonow.com: There are several anecdotes about Perry’s poor hitting and his first home run, but the story goes that in Perry’s second season with the Giants in 1963, his coach at the time, named Alvin Dark, is said to have joked, “They’ll put a man on the moon before he hits a home run.” Funny he mentioned that… Because, it was at at 20:18 Greenwich Mean Time on Sunday, July 20, 1969 that American astronauts landed on the… Read more »

Author

birtelcom

10 years ago

Reply to no statistician but

Some pitchers who had success in both leagues, pre-Gaylord:
–Jim Bunning
–Waite Hoyt (released by Connie Mack in 1931, he went on to pitch in the NL through 1938)
–The knuckleballers Dutch Leonard and Hoyt Wilhelm pitched all over the place.

But you are right, nsb, it was uncommon for top pitchers to switch leagues.

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