Circle of Greats: 1936 Balloting

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This post is for voting and discussion in the 42nd round of balloting for the Circle of Greats. This round adds to the ballot those players born in 1936. Rules and lists are after the jump.

The new group joins the holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full group eligible to receive your votes this round. The new group of 1936-born players must, as always, have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers).

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players. The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats. Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM EST on Tuesday, January 14 while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM EST Sunday, January 12.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: COG 1936 Round Vote Tally. I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes. Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted. Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the new born-in-1936 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players. The 13 current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility, and alphabetically when the future eligibility number is the same. The new group of 1936 birth-year guys are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors, and alphabetically among players with the same number of seasons played.

Holdovers:
Lou Whitaker (eligibility guaranteed for 10 rounds)
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 7 rounds)
Gaylord Perry (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Bobby Grich (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Edgar Martinez (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Juan Marichal (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Willie McCovey (eligibility guaranteed for two rounds)
Dick Allen (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Kenny Lofton (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Eddie Murray (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ron Santo (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1936, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Harmon Killebrew
Bill Mazeroski
Vic Davalillo
Frank Howard
J.C. Martin
Jerry Adair
Julian Javier
Clay Dalrymple
Tony Gonzalez
Ruben Amaro
Wayne Causey
Bob Johnson

Pitchers (born in 1936, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Eddie Fisher
Don Drysdale
Joe Hoerner
Stan Williams
Fred Gladding
Ron Perranoski
Gary Bell
Ralph Terry
John Buzhardt
Barry Latman
Bill Monbouquette
John Tsitouris
Howie Reed
Lee Stange

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Chris C

10 years ago

Biggio, Sandberg, Santo

Scary Tuna

10 years ago

Killebrew, Santo, Murray

jajacob

10 years ago

Whitaker, Perry, Grich

2 degrees of separation from Frank Howard. Growing up my back door neighbor was aunt to Tim Cullen teammate of FH. She saw him play several times and told me about it several years later.

Editor

Dalton Mack

10 years ago

Whitaker, Grich, Perry.

David Horwich

10 years ago

Perry, Sandberg, Santo The calm before the storm; probably the last chance any of the current holdovers have to be elected for a while. As most of you are probably aware, next year’s ballot will feature Frank Robinson, Bob Gibson, and Sandy Koufax, which will be immediately followed by 1934 Pt 1 with Aaron, Clemente, and Kaline. After that there are 3 elections with no top candidates (1934 Pt 2, 1933, and 1932), but still that’s 6 strong newcomers and only 5 elections. Then we get to 1931 – Pt 1 will have “only” Banks and Bunning, but oh that… Read more »

Voomo Zanzibar

10 years ago

Reply to David Horwich

Dont forget Don Zimmer.
He might get some votes for mistaking Pedro for an Octagon opponent at the age of 72.

KalineCountry Ron

10 years ago

Lou Whitaker
Juan Marichal
Harmon Killebrew

koma

10 years ago

Gaylord Perry, Craig Biggio, Harmon Killebrew

Hartvig

10 years ago

As always, seeing the names of players from this era brings back a lot of fond memories. With the possible exception of Hank Sauer, I think that Frank Howard may have been the player in all of baseball history to benefit the most if the designated hitter rule had been in effect in the era in which he played. If you combined that with any ballpark besides Griffith Stadium and I would say that he would have been a lock for 500 home runs. Put him in the right ballpark- say Fenway or Wrigley- from that era, and there’s a… Read more »

Voomo Zanzibar

10 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

I cannot dispute your first-hand observations.

Looking at Howard’s home/away splits for his three 40+ homer years (68-70), he whacked:

69 at home
67 on road

And for his career:

.279 .368 .514 .882 at RFK/Griffith
.273 .352 .499 .851 career numbers
____________________

The only stadiums with significant PA where he was truly beastly:

Cleveland
.332 .446 .648 1.093

Minnesota
.335 .405 .602 1.007

Lawrence Azrin

10 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

Frank Howard’s home park with the Senators on DC was not Griffith Stadium, but DC (later RFK) stadium, from 1965-1971. Still, I do agree with you, thatif: -Howard had come along 15 years later or more to be able to DH and -played the majority of his career in a hitter’s park that favored righthanded pull hitters .. he would’ve had a good chance to hit over 500 HR. Both Howard and Jim Rice had 382 career HR; Howard had more Adjusted Batting Runs, 36.8 (85th) to 29.4 (123rds). Now, I know all about the 1978 MVP, ‘most feared batter’… Read more »

latefortheparty

10 years ago

Gaylord Perry
Lou Whitaker
Bobby Grich

10 years ago

Gaylord Perry, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich

Editor

Bryan O'Connor

10 years ago

Most Wins Above Average, excluding negative seasons:

Perry 50.9
Grich 43.6
Santo 43.3
Whitaker 42.7
Martinez 41.3
Smoltz 40.1
Lofton 39.3
McCovey 38.9
Sandberg 38.8
Biggio 36.3
Allen 35.9
Murray 34.9
Killebrew 33.0
Marichal 32.7
Drysdale 29.4
Mazeroski, 10.4 WAA and maybe the happiest moment in baseball history

One more time: Perry, Martinez, Smoltz

Dr. Doom

10 years ago

Gaylord Perry Ron Santo Bobby Grich Welcome back to my ballot, Bobby Grich! I’ve missed voting for you! Also, I have to share my Harmon Killebrew story. I met Harmon shortly before he died. He was in St. Peter, MN in April 2010 speaking. There was, of course, about an hour for him to tell stories. Then an hour of question-and-answer. That COULD HAVE gone all night, because he was having so much fun telling stories, and we were all having so much fun listening. Then, he signed autographs – and that took longer than the speaking engagement. Because, as… Read more »

Author

birtelcom

10 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Most Regular Seasons MLB Homers During the 1960s:
1. Harmon Killebrew 393
2. Hank Aaron 375
3. Willie Mays 350
4. Frank Robinson 316
5. Willie McCovey 300

Dr. Doom

10 years ago

On a note unrelated to my previous post, how is Ron Santo on the bubble?!?

I guess this Hall of Famer is, somehow, STILL underrated.

I’m aware that he’s a relatively latecomer to the ballot, but so were Juan Marichal, Willie McCovey, and Dick Allen, and they’ve all racked up a couple of rounds to spare. Come on, Santo!

Author

birtelcom

10 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

In the 1940/Round 2 vote Ron Santo lost to Pete Rose in the induction race by a single vote, which was actually discovered in a re-count. Santo’s support was enough to get him a back-up round of eligibility, but in the 1969 vote he appeared on only six ballots and lost his backup eligibility, by just one vote. The last two rounds he has, with 15 votes each time, come up just barely short of re-gaining his extra round. He just always seems to be missing out on something by the smallest of margins.

Nick Pain

10 years ago

Perry, Whitaker, Santo

RonG

10 years ago

Whitaker, Grich, McCovey

Bix

10 years ago

Killebrew, McCovey, Perry

Abbott

10 years ago

Biggio, Grich, Santo

Paul E

10 years ago

Allen McCovey Sandberg

mosc

10 years ago

Perry, Santo, Biggio

John Z

10 years ago

Hartvig @#9 i am with you here, love some of these names and most of them bring back fond memories. But, there is one cringe worthy name on this ballot. None other then JC Martin who was much a part of those darn 69′ Miracle Mets, Being from Baltimore my Mom, Dad, Siblings and I were much wrapped up in the pennant race and the heavily favored Orioles. Only to have those dreams dashed by what seemed like multiple miracles. JC Martin was one of those miracles in game 4, 10th inning, score tied, bunt and then reached base on… Read more »

Hartvig

10 years ago

Reply to John Z

I know what you mean. For reasons far too complicated to go into Bill Buckner’s name touched a sore spot for me when it came up on the ballot. I’m also surprised that you’re the first to even mention Drysdale (well, I guess I did briefly but…). Not that I’m advocating for him- I think at best he’s a marginal COG candidate- but JAWS ranks him 49th vs. 43rd for Marichal (and JAWS doesn’t adjust for pre-1900 pitchers so their top 50 is heavily laden with pitchers from that era) and their scores are close at 57.5 and 56.0. Adam… Read more »

Francisco

10 years ago

Marichal, Perry, Biggio

Dr. Remulak

10 years ago

Biggio, Smoltz, Marichal.

J.R.

10 years ago

Killebrew, Grich, Biggio

bcholm

10 years ago

Killebrew, Santo, Marichal

ATarwerdi96

10 years ago

Bobby Grich, Edgar Martinez, Ron Santo

--bill

10 years ago

Perry, Grich, Drysdale.

WAR sees Frank Howard and Bill Mazeroski as having about the same value. And Howard and Killebrew get hammered by dWAR.

10 years ago

Harmon Killebrew did not do doubles (290 doubles in 9833 PAs). No one has as many PAs with fewer two-baggers. Only two others have at least 9000 PAs and fewer than 300 doubles: Larry Bowa and Brett Butler (combined HRs: 69).

Editor

Doug

10 years ago

Reply to RJ

Players with most 20 HR seasons with twice as many home runs as doubles. Rk Yrs From To Age 1 Mark McGwire 8 1990 2001 26-37 Ind. Seasons 2 Harmon Killebrew 8 1959 1972 23-36 Ind. Seasons 3 Dave Kingman 5 1973 1982 24-33 Ind. Seasons 4 Willie McCovey 5 1962 1973 24-35 Ind. Seasons 5 Mickey Mantle 5 1956 1962 24-30 Ind. Seasons 6 Ralph Kiner 5 1947 1952 24-29 Ind. Seasons 7 Sammy Sosa 4 1995 2002 26-33 Ind. Seasons 8 Barry Bonds 4 1994 2007 29-42 Ind. Seasons 9 Hank Aaron 4 1960 1973 26-39 Ind. Seasons… Read more »

Author

birtelcom

10 years ago

Reply to RJ

Lowest Career Doubles-to-Homers Ratio, min. 1,000 PAs:
Mark McGwire .432
Harmon Killebrew .506
Ken Phelps .520
Dave Nicholson .525
Johnny Blanchard .537
Dave Kingman .543

Editor

Doug

10 years ago

Reply to RJ

Killebrew is also in this small group of players with a career ratio of more than 3 RBI for every 4 hits. Greenberg is notable as the only player to do this with more doubles than home runs. Rk Player RBI H PA From To Age G AB R 2B 3B HR BB SO BA OBP SLG Tm 1 Babe Ruth 2220 2873 10622 1914 1935 19-40 2503 8399 2174 506 136 714 2062 1330 .342 .474 .690 BOS-NYY-BSN 2 Harmon Killebrew 1584 2086 9833 1954 1975 18-39 2435 8147 1283 290 24 573 1559 1699 .256 .376 .509 WSH-MIN-KCR… Read more »

Richard Chester

10 years ago

Reply to Doug

He’s also in a small group of players with 25%+ of his hits being HRs (1000H min.).

Player………….HR…..H
Barry Bonds……..762…2935
Jim Thome……….612…2328
Sammy Sosa………609…2408
Mark McGwire…….583…1626
H. Killebrew…….573…2086
Dave Kingman…….442…1575
Adam Dunn……….440…1537
Ralph Kiner……..369…1451
Ryan Howard……..311…1176
Carlos Pena……..285…1138
Gorman Thomas……268…1051

Voomo Zanzibar

10 years ago

Reply to Doug

McGwire.
6 career triples.
4 in his rookie season.

ONE triple, 529 HR in his last 6670 PA

oneblankspace

10 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

If I recall correctly, for McGwire’s last triple, he was robbed of a homerun by a big-name outfielder. Looking it up, it was Tony Gwynn playing in that field on that night.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1999/B08020SLN1999.htm

Editor

Doug

10 years ago

Reply to oneblankspace

If he made it to third, I guess we can credit Big Mac with not admiring his shot.

Richard Chester

10 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

From 6-22-88 to 8-1-99 McGwire had a streak of 1377 games (4613 AB) without a triple.

Editor

Doug

10 years ago

Reply to Richard Chester

Looks like Paul Konerko has the second-longest triple-less streak at 1220 games (4420 AB) from 5-17-00 to 6-6-08.

The longest active streak belongs to Russell Martin, at 796 games and 2719 AB since tripling off Matt Cain on 9-9-07.

Longest career (G/AB) for different triple totals.
0 – Johnny Estrada 612/2079
1 – Rod Barajas 1114/3460
2 – Brian McCann 1105/3863 (and counting)
3 – Victor Martinez 1308/4884 (and counting)
4 – Charles Johnson 1188/3836
5 – Mike Sweeney 1454/5188
6 – Mark McGwire 1874/6187

bstar

10 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

Frank Howard: 7352 PA, 35 triples
Kong Kingman: 7429 PA, 25 triples
Mark McGwire: 7660 PA, 6 triples

10 years ago

Juan Marichal vs Don Drysdale. Marichal: Wins: 243 Losses: 142 Win-Loss%: .631 ERA: 2.89 Game Starts: 457 Complete Games: 244 Shutouts: 52 Innings Pitched: 3507 Strikeouts: 2303 ERA+: 123 All Star appearances: 9 Cy Young Awards: 0 World Series Titles: 0 WAR: 61.9 Drysdale: Wins: 209 Losses: 166 Win-Loss%: .557 ERA: 2.95 Game Starts: 465 Complete Games: 167 Shutouts: 49 Innings Pitched: 3432 Strikeouts: 2486 ERA+: 121 All Star appearances: 8 Cy Young Awards: 1 World Series Titles: 3 WAR: 61.2 The standout difference is their W-L%, but other than that it’s very similar. I’m not sure I can continue… Read more »

Editor

Doug

10 years ago

Reply to RJ

Sharp eye, RJ. Drysdale does indeed hold that record, together with Run Guidry. Spud Chandler has the most baserunners without allowing any runs. Johnny Antonelli is the only pitcher to allow a home run and no others runs with 13 or more baserunners. Jim Babgy is the only pitcher with that many base runners, but no walks, and allowing only one run. Rk Player Date Series Gm# Tm Opp Rslt App,Dec IP H R ER BB BR SO HR 1 Ron Guidry 1978-10-13 WS 3 NYY LAD W 5-1 CG 9 ,W 9.0 8 1 1 7 15 4 0… Read more »

10 years ago

Reply to Doug

Thanks for all the cool tables Doug!

Guidry’s 1978 game is the only one on the list since Drysdale’s. I’m guessing that’s because no pitcher would be allowed to give up that many baserunners in today’s game (with all the racking up of the pitch count that entails) without a reliever coming in, no matter how successfully he was escaping jams.

Hub Kid

10 years ago

Reply to RJ

I know it is a fluky record, but I like the consecutive shutouts record, held by Drysdale, with 6 straight in 1968 (58 innings). The flukiness is compounded by the record being ‘broken’ by Hershiser’s 59 consecutive scoreless innings (but only 5 shutouts) in 1988. According to Wikipedia, the no. 3 on the list is Walter Johnson with 55 2/3 innings in 1913, and he has the more meaningful career shutouts record with 110. B-Ref doesn’t rate either consecutive innings or consecutive shutouts, not showing a leaderboard for either. After RJ’s stats above, Drysdale has fewer career shutouts (49) than… Read more »

Richard Chester

10 years ago

Reply to Hub Kid

Baseball Almanac has a consecutive scoreless inning leaderboard. In 4th place is Jack Coombs with 53 IP in 1910. It was his record that Johnson broke in 1913.

The BR PI shows Drysdale as the record holder with 6 consecutive shutouts.

bstar

10 years ago

Reply to RJ

Drysdale’s career WAR (67.2) is actually better than Marichal’s (63.1) because Don was a better hitter, but that advantage is still pretty small.

Like a lot of people on here, though, I always considered Marichal to be a cut above Drysdale. But they really do look like effective equals.

Lawrence Azrin

10 years ago

Reply to bstar

@47/bstar,

Speaking of equals – Drysdale’s career Pitcher’s WAR is 61.2, Marichal is 61.9. YET – Marichal is 101 games over .500, while Drysdale is only 35 games over .500. Lesson #137 why Pitcher’s Wins can be highly deceptive…

Useless trivia: Marichal won 25 or more games three times (1963, 1966, 1968), but got _no_ CYA votes those three years (blame Koufax and Gibson), as there was only a first-place vote till 1970.

bstar

10 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Run support (average MLB RS for both pitchers’ careers was 4.1):

Marichal – 4.7 RS/9
Drysdale – 4.1 RS/9

I don’t think that explains all of the difference in win % for these two. The biggest thing I see is that Drysdale had far more no-decisions than Marichal.

Lawrence: If Drysdale had been the Giants ace and Marichal had played second fiddle to Sandy Koufax, would their narratives be at least partially switched?

Lawrence Azrin

10 years ago

Reply to bstar

@70/bstar, The difference in run support between these two isn’t as great as you state; I think you have to factor in Dodger Stadium into Drysdale’s run support (he pitched there from 1962-1969), and how it killed offense, esp. in the 2nd ‘dead ball era’ of 1963-68. The Giants had a lineup of Mays, McCovey, Cepeda, Jim Ray Hart, Bobby Bonds (+ others) for a good part of Marichal’s career. But the Dodgers also had some solid lineups over Drysdale’s Dodger career, starting with Snider/ Hodges/ /Campanella/ Furillo/ Reese/ Gilliam in the mid/late 50s, then by the ealy 60s the… Read more »

oneblankspace

10 years ago

Reply to RJ

Marichal vs. Drysdale Head to head: 5/19/61: LA 8, SF 7 ; Drysdale 5 IP, 2ER ; Marichal 7 1-3 IP, 4ER 9/ 4/61: Drysdale CG-SHO, Marichal L, 4 1-3 IP, 4R, 3ER 9/ 9/61: SF 9, LA 6 ; Marichal 3 1-3 IP, 1ER (injured) ; Drysdale 6 1-3 IP, 6ER 6/11/63: Marichal CG-SHO, Drysdale L, 8 IP, 3ER 6/19/63: Marichal W, 7 2-3 IP, 3R, 1ER ; Drysdale L, 4 1-3 IP, 6R, 4ER 8/30/63: Drysdale CG-W, 1ER ; Marichal L, 6 IP, 2ER 9/ 7/63: Marichal CG-W, 3R, 2ER ; Drysdale L, 6 IP, 4ER 4/29/65: Drysdale… Read more »

Paul E

10 years ago

Reply to oneblankspace

O B S # 57:

I vaguely recall that Bill James wrote up in one of abstracts or compendiums something to the effect that Drysdale pitched poorly in “big” games. In the games you’ve listed, his ERA appears to be approximately 3.25 – not so bad considering the SF Giants’ lineup of that period

David Horwich

10 years ago

Reply to Paul E

James devoted an entire chapter (31) of The Politics of Glory to Drysdale. Some excerpts: “Drysdale pitched 80 games (75 starts) in the heat of a pennant race…his performance is a mixed bag. Drysdale helped carry the Dodgers down the stretch in ’63, ’65, and ’66, helped them blow it in ’61 and ’62, and pitched badly down the stretch in ’59, although the Dodgers won anyway.” Drysdale had a 3.13 ERA in those 80 games (512 IP). Breaking it down further, James looked at games against the Dodgers’ chief rival in each of the 6 seasons mentioned above; he… Read more »

Paul E

10 years ago

Reply to David Horwich

David H @ 69: I’ve never been a believer in the myth of “clutch” (trumpets blaring, broadcaster felatio), however, if you have the pill in your hand in a ML baseball game, you have a distinct advantage over the guy holding the bat (66.5 % success rate on average?). For a guy like Drysdale to fail extraordinarily (barring injury)like that, is a total collapse. I’ve seen talented guys like Edmonds and Rolen go 1 for 30 (combined) in a post-season series and hit the cover off the ball at other times. That’s a small sample size and understandable. But, if… Read more »

David Horwich

10 years ago

Reply to David Horwich

Paul E @80:

Well, you’re in control to some extent, but you’re still at the mercy of your offensive support, your defensive support, and plain ol’ luck. Drysdale did pitch reasonably well in the WS, that should count, too, when discussing his performance in clutch games. Not that I’m advocating Drysdale for the CoG; I don’t think he’s particularly close.

Lawrence Azrin

10 years ago

Reply to oneblankspace

@67/Paul E,

For the years you listed, the NL ERA was about 3.50 (I didn’t weight innings/year), so a 3.25 ERA by Drysdale in these games is decent but not close to outstanding.

oneblankspace

10 years ago

Reply to oneblankspace

That should say Marichal: 10-3 (9-0 CG, 3 SHO), Drysdale 3-10 (3-2 CG, 1 SHO)

Editor

Doug

10 years ago

Killebrew, Drysdale, Allen

Jeff Harris

10 years ago

Whitaker, Killebrew, Allen

JEV

10 years ago

Perry, McCovey, Marichal

oneblankspace

10 years ago

Biggio from the holdovers

EMurray from the holdovers

Drysdale from the newcomers — one of the few HOFers who was married to a HOFer (basketball player Ann Myers); he worked the White Sox TV booth with Hawk Harrelson before Harrelson was promoted and fired Tony La Russa

Hub Kid

10 years ago

Ron Santo, Bobby Grich, Dick Allen

Lawrence Azrin

10 years ago

All first basemen this time:

– Harmon Killebrew
– Eddie Murray
– Willie McCovey

They rank by the JAWS HOF-evaluator 19th, 14th, and 12th respectively. KIllebrew ranks ahead of 8 HOF 1bmen (two BBWAA choices, Perez and Terry).

Andy

10 years ago

Biggio, Whitaker, Allen

jeff hill

10 years ago

I find it odd that so many are voting for Killebrew despite his pedestrian WAR totals for such a long career(just over 60 overall). Only twice did he reach 6+ WAR and his low avg. plus SLG is an odd mix.

Lofton, Santo, Smoltz

10 years ago

Reply to jeff hill

For 26 years the career home run leaderboard read Aaron, Ruth, Mays, Robinson, Killebrew. That leaves an impression.

Hartvig

10 years ago

Reply to jeff hill

Plus, at least as of 1999, Bill James had him ranked 63rd on his list of the top 100 players of all time. Plus his value took a fairly significant hit when Washington/Minnesota asked him to do some stuff that he probably shouldn’t have been doing, like playing in the outfield or third base, especially late in his career.

Aaron

10 years ago

Perry, Martinez, Grich

Mike HBC

10 years ago

Perry, McCovey, Smoltz

aweb

10 years ago

Perry, who seems to be taking a long time for a guy with 90+ WAR – are people actively avoiding him due to the spitter? His career value seems to be well into automatic territory

Grich, my choice for out of the 2B logjam (I’ve voted for most of them at one time or another). Unless he wins, I can see him getting lost in the coming ballot crunch.

Santo, always destined to just barely lose these voting things, apparently.

brp

10 years ago

Perry, to win
Lofton, to stay on ballot
Santo, for more rounds

Subject to change

Luis Gomez

10 years ago

Edgar, Whitaker, Marichal.

Bill Johnson

10 years ago

Whitaker, Santo, Killebrew

Artie Z

10 years ago

Perry, Santo, Murray (likely for the last time until there’s a redemption round)

Editor

Bryan O'Connor

10 years ago

Reply to Artie Z

Is this a comment on your personal preference for Murray or on his likelihood to stay on the ballot? It seems that in every election, Murray gets no more than one or two of the first 40 or so votes, but the late voters creep in and save him in the last day or two. I could see him sticking around through the upcoming glut of superstars.

Artie Z.

10 years ago

Reply to Bryan O'Connor

Both – with the guys that are coming up I’m going to find it hard to keep voting for Murray, and I’m guessing that I’m part of the deciding factor on whether or not he gets 10%. Even this round I had a tough time voting for Murray over Marichal. Perhaps he stays on with the “top 9” return rule.

Lawrence Azrin

10 years ago

Reply to Artie Z

@79/Bryan,

Yeah, I’ve noticed the same thing about Murray’s support – I hadn’t checked the COG 1937 ballot for a few days when the results were announced, so I figured he was gone, but lo and behold! – he got more than enough votes those last few days to exceed 10%.

Drysdale illustrates very well the difference between the actual HOF and our COG – he’s a decent HOF selection, but an also-ran for COG consideration.

Gary Bateman

10 years ago

Marichal, Santo, Smoltz

Voomo Zanzibar

10 years ago

Vote:

Lofton
Perry
Whitaker

Michael Sullivan

10 years ago

Perry, Grich, Whitaker

Drysdale is the only newcomer I seriously considered, but I think he falls just short of COG.

bstar

10 years ago

Perry, Lofton, Ryno

donburgh

10 years ago

Perry, Lofton, Biggio (next year, Craig, next year)

A note about Mazeroski: I grew up in Pittsburgh while Maz was on the BBWAA ballot, and I took it as a matter of faith that he was being snubbed. Now that I’m older, even as I am happy for Maz that he is in the Hall, I’m pretty well convinced that he doesn’t belong there. An OPS+ of 84 just doesn’t cut it, no matter what other factors there are. That said I still might put him on the Pirates Mount Rushmore (cough, cough).

Hartvig

10 years ago

Reply to donburgh

I’m actually coming around just a little bit on the idea that maybe there is also room for a few players who maybe aren’t among the greatest ever but who were “very good and…” if part of their story is an integral part of the long term narrative- from Maz to Tinker to Evers to Chance to maybe even someone like Lefty O’Doul who was a terrific minor league pitcher before he turned in a few really good seasons in the majors in the outfield after a 309 hit season in the high minors and before a long and successful… Read more »

Author

birtelcom

10 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

The Hall of the Very Interesting. The standard might be those about whom an interesting special exhibit at Cooperstown could be put together. Maz is unusual in having two separate important claims to great fame — one of the great defensive second basemen of all time (#2 to Joe Gordon in b-ref’s career Rfield since 1900) as well as the hitter of the only walk-off homer in a World Series Game 7.

Hartvig

10 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

And we could have a “legends” wing and a “great story” wing and a “characters” wing…

Richard Chester

10 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

And a Friends of Frankie Frisch wing.

Hartvig

10 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

You mean there isn’t one already?

oneblankspace

10 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

Put Jim Deshaies in the Hall!

Josh

10 years ago

Smoltz, Marichal, Drysdale

Kirk

10 years ago

Perry, Killebrew and Mazeroski not that Maz deserves it but I can never forget the joy he brought me as a youngster who was recovering from a broken leg and out of school so I got to see his world series winning homer live. What a thrill.