Quiz – Trend-setting Batters (solved)

41 Replies

These are the only players since 1901 with a particular seasonal batting feat, first introduced by Jim Wynn. A batter before his time, Wynn had been out of baseball for a decade before any of these other hitters had played a full season.

What is the seasonal batting feat Wynn pioneered that is now coming into vogue?

Player
Rickie Weeks
Carlos Pena
Curtis Granderson
David Dellucci
Jim Edmonds
Mark McGwire
Ray Lankford
Jim Wynn

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/21/2013.

Congratulations to Richard Chester! He correctly identified that these are the only players since 1901 having a qualifying season with more strikeouts than hits, and with a run total exceeding 80% of the hit total. This combination of modest hits and immodest strikeouts surprisingly resulting in lots of runs is, aside from Jim Wynn, a very recent phenomenon.

More after the jump.

Here are those seasons.

Rk	Player	Year ▾	SO	H	Age	Tm	G	PA	AB	R	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	Pos
1	Curtis Granderson	2011	169	153	30	NYY	156	691	583	136	26	10	41	119	85	.262	.364	.552	.916	*8/HD
2	Carlos Pena	2009	163	107	31	TBR	135	570	471	91	25	2	39	100	87	.227	.356	.537	.893	*3/H
3	Rickie Weeks	2008	115	111	25	MIL	129	560	475	89	22	7	14	46	66	.234	.342	.398	.740	*4/H
4	Rickie Weeks	2007	116	96	24	MIL	118	506	409	87	21	6	16	36	78	.235	.374	.433	.807	*4/H
5	David Dellucci	2005	121	109	31	TEX	128	518	435	97	17	5	29	65	76	.251	.367	.513	.879	*D7H/89
6	Jim Edmonds	2000	167	155	30	STL	152	643	525	129	25	0	42	108	103	.295	.411	.583	.994	*8/3H
7	Mark McGwire	1998	155	152	34	STL	155	681	509	130	21	0	70	147	162	.299	.470	.752	1.222	*3/H
8	Ray Lankford	1994	113	111	27	STL	109	482	416	89	25	5	19	57	58	.267	.359	.488	.847	*8/H
9	Jim Wynn	1976	111	93	34	ATL	148	584	449	75	19	1	17	66	127	.207	.377	.367	.744	*78H
10	Jim Wynn	1969	142	133	27	HOU	149	653	495	113	17	1	33	87	148	.269	.436	.507	.943	*8

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/23/2013.

Those 113 runs by Wynn in 1969 are the 8th highest total by an Astro playing in the Astrodome, All of the higher totals were posted by himself, or by Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell. Granderson’s 153 hits are the lowest total, by eighteen, for any player scoring over 132 runs. Mark McGwire’s 1998 season is the only one to feature 150 hits, walks and strikeouts, and also the only season with 130 of those three totals plus runs and RBI as well.

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11 years ago

Gotta be something to do with low BA, high OBP seasons, with a decent amount of power.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to RJ

Actually, none of those things. At least, not directly.

Voomo Zanzibar

11 years ago

This isn’t it, obviously, but Ray Lankford led the leag9ue in both strikeouts and caught stealing. That’s got to be rare.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

It is rare, indeed. Only found these three to do the same since 1901.

Rk	Player	Year ▾	CS	SO	Age	Tm	HR	SB
2	Reggie Jackson	1970	17	135	24	OAK	23	26
4	George Grantham	1923	28	92	23	CHC	8	43
4	George Burns	1913	35	74	23	NYG	2	40

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/21/2013.

Brendan

11 years ago

gotta have something to do with average in relation to OPS? strikeouts somehow involved?

Brendan

11 years ago

dellucci has to be the key here because he only had that one season where he qualified for the batting title, how far off am i?

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Brendan

Qualified for the batting title is part of the answer, so that simplifies things as far as Delucci is concerned.

Lawrence Azrin

11 years ago

More hits than strikeouts, at least a 120 OPS+, minimum 450 PA?

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Hits and strikeouts are both part of the answer.

Luis Gomez

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

LA, did you meant more strikeouts than hits? That sounds more like part of the answer.

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Luis Gomez

That is correct, Luis.

aweb

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

I’d guess it’s OPS+ > K > H. Dellucci and Pena both managed it, as did Wynn.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to aweb

That’s not it. But an interesting premise.

But, there have been quite a number of other hitters who have done this, including Pat Seerey (1946), Jim Gentile (1964), Bob Allison (1965), Mickey Mantle (1967), Dick Allen (1969), Mike Epstein (1971), Willie Mays (1971), Gene Tenace (1974, 1977), Dave Kingman (1981), Mike Schmidt (1983), Reggie Jackson (1986), Jose Canseco (1990), Jim Thome (1997, 1998, 2006, 2007), Josh Willingham (2012), and others.

Lawrence Azrin

11 years ago

Reply to Luis Gomez

OOPS!! Yes, thanks for picking that up.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

So, we’ve got
– Qualified for the Batting Title
– More Strikeouts than Hits

Need one more piece.

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Hmmm…quite confusing. The first two criteria (qualified for batting title and more strikeouts than hits) are quite common. So how can one more piece whittle things down to only 8 players??? I’ve tried a variety of possibilities but so far nothing comes close.

Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Is it something like OBP>(.100+AVG)? It’s true for all of these guys.

11 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

I don’t think it can be anything like that, because a lot of guys who fit the SO>H description also walk a lot, like Adam Dunn, Jim Thome, Mike Schmidt, Jack Clark etc, and they’re not here.

bells

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Argh, I’ve been looking for awhile and it’s difficult. One thing I’m confused about – you need 502 PA’s for the batting title, right? I don’t see any qualified seasons for Ray Lankford that fit those first two criteria.

Richard Chester

11 years ago

Reply to bells

Lankford met the qualifying season requirement in the strike-shortened 1994 season.

bells

11 years ago

Reply to Richard Chester

ohhhhhh yes, of course. I’ve been looking too hard at the numbers and not the years. Thanks!

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

… and 25+ HRs with less than 70 RBI?

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

Reply to John Autin

No, John, that’s not it.

11 years ago

I, like Ed, am having difficulty narrowing it down. Something I did find though: strikeouts greater than hits, qualified for the batting title and 10 or more triples returned 7 results, only 1 before 1989, and only 3 before 2009. Those seasons: Bobby Knoop (1966) Robby Thompson (1989) Sammy Sosa (1990) Dexter Fowler (2009) Dexter Fowler (2011) Curtis Granderson (2011) Austin Jackson (2011) Knoop was an All-Star that year, playing 161 games of gold glove level second base for the Angels and leading the league with 11 triples. His .232/.282/.386 slash line was good enough for a 93 OPS+. Five… Read more »

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

I surrender! But for those still tilting away, here’s a link to the 26 seasons by these 8 guys which meet the two known criteria (qualified & more SO than H).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=Sl4V5

Luis Gomez

11 years ago

Doug, is the missing piece something we can find on JA´s link?

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Luis Gomez

Yes, the missing piece is there.

It involves the relationship between two common stats. Both are found in a traditional newspaper box score.

Luis Gomez

11 years ago

Is it more SO than hits, and more walks than RBI?

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Luis Gomez

No, that’s not it.

For one example, Gorman Thomas has such a season in 1983.

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

Doug, correct me if I’m wrong: It seems very unlikely that any combination of P-I searches alone will return *only* these 8 players and prove them to meet your criteria. There seem to be two ratios involved — more SO than hits, and the mystery piece — and the P-I does just one ratio at a time. And a filtered search operates over all the *players* in the saved search, not merely the *years* shown in the initial search. In other words, if I search for qualified seasons with more SO than hits, I get 422 seasons (by 210 players).… Read more »

Doug

11 years ago

That is the challenge, John.

I copied the seasons to a spreadsheet to find the seasons that met both criteria.

But, you have two seasons to start (Dellucci and Lankford) and the other criteria involves two of AB, R, H and RBI. So, that provides a decent start.

Richard Chester

11 years ago

R/H ratio greater than 0.8.

Doug

11 years ago

Richard’s got it.

Well done!

Richard Chester

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

There are 6 combinations of ratios involving AB, R, H and RBI taken 2 at at a time. I ran all 6 on a spreadsheet of players with SO greater than H and sorted each combination, one by one.

11 years ago

Reply to Richard Chester

Banging my head against the wall….I noticed immediately the strong connection between hits and runs for several of the players. But once the one ratio was identified, I assumed there couldn’t be a second ratio involved.

Doug

11 years ago

The brute force method, Richard. 🙂

What got me onto this idea was the discussion of who Detroit might get to replace Fielder’s homers.Looking at Granderson’s stats those 136 runs on not many more hits jumped out at me..

Richard Chester

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Doug: Did you solve the quiz I e-mailed you recently?

Doug

11 years ago

I spent an hour or so onm your question, Richard. Butn didn’t come up with anything other than the LA Dodgers as an organization.

Richard Chester

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

That’s not it.

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

Aside to Doug and HHS bloggers — I noticed the “Congratulations” paragraph above displays in a larger font, and suspected that it was caused by this unwanted code which has bedeviled my own posts for some time: span style=”font-size: 13px;” It seems to come in somehow from some text that is copy-pasted in from B-R. I have simply deleted it when it occurs. What is most puzzling, though, is that it sometimes spontaneously returns after I’ve removed all such codes, if I edit the post — even if I paste nothing during that editing. Does anyone know what’s going on… Read more »

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

P.S. Since the slab was moved to 60′ 6″ in 1893, there has been just one qualifying season with more runs than hits: 1930, Max Bishop, 117 R, 111 H, 128 walks … and 3 HOFers behind him in the order.

Next closest was Rickey Henderson in 1996 with the Padres, 110 runs with 112 hits.