Wednesday game notes: Rays flushing the W.C.?

… and we’re back, with a few quick notes.

Yankees 5, @Orioles 4 — Tommy Hunter kept the O’s tied through the 8th, retiring A-Rod with a man aboard. Buck Showalter let him start the 9th against Robinson Cano. Whoops.

 

Cano’s 27th HR gave him 100 RBI, and was the 10th tater by a lefty in 150 ABs off Hunter, who also served a 1-out triple by Curtis Granderson. At last, Buck brought in a southpaw for Lyle Overbay, but his well-placed grounder brought the extra run home. Mariano got 2 quick outs, then 2-strike hits by Nate McLouth and Brian Roberts kept Baltimore breathing. But Manny Machado went down swinging at a high fastball.

  • Andy Pettitte had a 1-0 lead with 2 outs in the 3rd, then started falling behind: 1-and-0 single, 2-and-0 single, 2-and-0 2-run double by Chris Davis.
  • Scott Feldman walked his opening batter for just the 2nd time this year, and it cost him a run on a steal and two groundouts. Then he put down 12 in a row. New York’s first two hits were HRs by Granderson and A-Rod.
  • Danny Valencia went 4-4 with a double, 3 of the hits off Andy Pettitte. He’s batting .385 (30-78) and slugging .692 off southpaws.

Red Sox 7, @Rays 3 — Boston’s early 3-0 lead eroded into extra innings, but Mike Carp’s pinch-slam off Roberto Hernandez deepened Tampa’s slump and brought unintended joy to Yankee Land.

  • With a comfortable lead in the division, John Farrell eschewed his top short relievers and used Brandon Workman for 2 innings, and the rookie gave up a run each frame, including Jame Loney’s tying HR in the 8th.

Royals 6, @Indians 2 — James Shields gave up 2 hits in the 1st, then no more until the 9th, and earned his first win over Cleveland since 2011. Shields reached 200 innings for the 7th year in a row, likely to be joined there by Verlander, Sabathia and Buehrle. Shields is 4th in total innings since 2007, after Sabathia, Verlander and King Felix.

  • In the 6th inning, Carlos Santana drew the Tribe’s only walk of the series. It’s the first time this year they’ve gone 3 straight games receiving 1 walk or less.
  • K.C. is 25-22 against teams currently holding a playoff berth.
  • Standings for the AL’s 2nd wild card: Rays 78-66, Yankees 78-68 (-1.0), Indians & Orioles 77-68 (-1.5), Royals 77-69 (-2.0).

@Marlins 5, Braves 2 — The last rookie outing by Miami’s precocious ace was more hard-working Jose than flashy Fernandez, at least when he was facing the plate. The righty worked past scoring threats in the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th; gave up a solo HR to Evan Gattis in the 6th; got the run back with his first homer (and some free advice on big-league etiquette); and finished his year with a strikeout of Justin Upton, a 12-6 record and a 2.19 ERA — 2nd-best ever by a qualified Marlin, and the 5th-best modern mark by a pitcher not past his age-20 season.

  • Fernandez also batted .220 (11-50), with a HR, triple and double for a .340 slugging average. Both marks are better than what he allowed.
  • Fernandez leads the NL right now in SO/9 and H/9.

Tigers 1, @White Sox 0 — Omar Infante’s 2-out single in the 8th brought Prince Fielder rumbling in from 2nd with the game’s only run, on their first hit in 9 tries with RISP. Anibal Sanchez left the bags full in the 5th, then fanned 5 of his next 7 men (10 Ks overall) before a hit and walk sent him off with 1 out in the 8th. Jose Veras and Drew Smyly quelled that uprising with a whiff apiece, and Joaquin Benoit closed his 18th save (none blown) with nothing past the infield.

  • Sanchez won his 14th, a new personal best, and trimmed his AL-low ERA to 2.50.
  • Detroit left 5 runners in the first 2 innings, going 0-5 with RISP just in those stanzas.
  • Jose Quintana gets nada for his 7 strong innings against MLB’s #2 offense.

@Cardinals 5, Brewers 1 — Four runs in the 8th snapped a tie and kept the Cards clear in the Central. Carlos Beltran’s bases-loaded sac fly scored Matt Carpenter for the lead, and a 2-out blast by Matt Adams broke it open. Lance Lynn fanned 10 over 6 innings, allowing an unearned run, for his first quality start in 6 outings while ending a 4-start losing streak with a no-decision.

Milwaukee took advantage of Yadier Molina’s unscheduled absence, scoring their run in the 2nd on a 2-out double steal plus an overthrow by Tony Cruz. Marco Estrada didn’t allow a hit until Matt Carpenter’s 2-out dribbler in the 6th, but he left with 2 on in the 7th, and Daniel Descalso’s 2-out hit tied it.

Athletics 18, @Twins 3 (9th) — A little 10-run, 10-hit romp in the 4th inning — but unlike sandlot rules, they didn’t stop and choose up new sides.

__________

Why am I unmoved by Ichiro’s hits total in Japan? Exhibit A is the performance by Wladimir Balentien, in the major leagues, and in the minor leagues — including this year’s NPB-record-tying 55 home runs. I don’t doubt that Ichiro would have hit well in the majors had he arrived years earlier, and racked up historic hit totals. But the specific stats he compiled in Japan, against competition that was undeniably below MLB-caliber, just don’t seem very relevant.

____________________

Tuesday

Pirates 5, @Rangers 4 — Texas mounted 2-out rallies against both Grilli and Melancon, the latter yielding 4 straight hits before Adrian Beltre swung over a dead fish to end it.

Yankees 7, @Orioles 5 — Is it just me, or was Kevin Gausman an odd choice to try to hold a one-run lead in the 8th inning against the heart of New York’s batting order?

Red Sox 2, @Rays 0Clay Buchholz is 10-0. No undefeated pitcher has ever won more than 9 starts.

  • Koji Uehara has retired 31 straight batters over his last 9 games, totaling 10 innings — 2nd-longest streak (by IP) in searchable history, after Bobby Jenks, 13 IP in 2007 (tied with Sergio Romo, 2011).

@Dodgers 5, D-backs 3 (11 inn.) — L.A.’s bullpen retired 15 out of 16 batters.

  • Scott Van Slyke is slugging .519 (28 for 108, 7 HRs, 7 doubles) — the same as Adrian Beltre and Andrew McCutchen.
  • Adrian Gonzalez is incredibly slow, so it’s tough to say whether he was running hard from the start of this should-be double.

Braves 4, @Marlins 3 — The pinch-runner’s worst fear, and a textbook definition of “rookie mistake.”

  • According to one calculation of win expectancy, a visiting team down by one run with 2 outs in the 9th has a 9.1% chance of winning if they have a man on 2nd base, and 9.5% with a man on 3rd base.
  • The game’s other biggest play: Luis Ayala came in to face Giancarlo Stanton with 2 outs in the 7th, bases full and a one-run lead, and whiffed him on three pitches. (See 1:41 of the game summary.) Ayala’s stranded 17 of inherited 20 runners in 30 games for Atlanta.

Tigers 9, @White Sox 1 — Cross Rick Porcello off the active list of most starts without a complete game, as he crossed the finish line in career start #147. Teammate Max Scherzer is the active leader at 162, approaching the all-time mark of 167 by Tony Armas, Jr.

  • Can you find a more consistently mediocre pitcher than Porcello? This would be his 4th straight qualified year with an ERA between 4.56 and 4.92 (ERA+ of 85 to 92). He would be the only qualified pitcher under a 100 ERA+ each of the last 4 years. Just two other modern pitchers had 4 such years by age 24 — Red Ruffing and Jeremy Bonderman.

Nationals 6, @Mets 3 — Suddenly, Jayson Werth has a shot at the NL’s batting, slugging and OPS crowns. There are two batting titles in club history, by Tim Raines (1986, .334) and Al Oliver (1982, .331) — but no SLG or OPS titles. Remember the last NL’er to lead in both batting and slugging?

Rockies 9, @Giants 8 — What does Carlos Gonzalez have in common with Darin Mastroianni? In his last 5 games, CarGo has played the field without batting — matching the longest such streak of the year for non-pitchers, with Mastroianni the only other outfielder.

  • I don’t know what’s up with that, but I hope they know it doesn’t help him qualify for the batting title.

Astros 13, @Mariners 2 — Houston hit 8 doubles, almost exactly 10 years since their last 8-doubles game. Can you spot the other “doubular” aspect of that game which is unique in Astros history, and hasn’t been done in the majors since then?

____________________

Monday

@Dodgers 8, D-backs 1 — Five out of eight 3-HR games this year were by third basemen — the most in any season for that position. Juan Uribe is the first Dodgers 3B to do it.

Nationals 6, @Mets 0 — Gio Gonzalez allowed just a walk through 6 innings, only 73 pitches. Pinch-hitter Zach Lutz broke it up on the first pitch of the 7th. The last no-hitter against the Mets was by Darryl Kile in Sept. 1993. Gio hasn’t gone the route in his last 33 starts.

  • Denard Span and Ryan Zimmerman started the game with back-to-back home runs. Per my Event Finder search:
  • It’s a first in Nats/Expos history. They had three home games starting with two HRs in the bottom of the 1st: on June 16 of 2002 (Wilkerson, Vidro) and of 2011 (Werth, Bernadina), and June 3, 2012 (Lombardozzi & Harper on consecutive pitches). Gio Gonzalez has been the beneficiary of the last two such games (counting tonight); he lost his first try.
  • It’s the first time since 2011 that any team started a game off with two homers. There were three such games in 2011, two by Milwaukee and two against Edinson Volquez, including the season opener (won 7-6 by the Reds on a 2-out, 3-run HR).
  • It’s happened to the Mets just once before: the nightcap of a 2003 split-stadium twinbill against the Yankees (Soriano & Jeter).
  • Carlos Torres gave up two more HRs, becoming the first Met this year to surrender four in a game. Johan Santana was the last Met to do that, right after his no-hitter, in Yankee Stadium (including three straight). Johan’s also the only other Met to give up 4 HRs in Citi Field — a game he won.
  • Wilson Ramos hit Washington’s 5th HR in the 5th — a new Citi Field record — after two 2-out walks. Their franchise record is 8 HRs, in Atlanta on 1978-07-30.

Blue Jays 2, @Twins 0 — The 13th game this year wherein both starters allowed no runs in an outing that lasted 7+ innings. For fun, here’s the last such game at thresholds of 8 innings, 9 innings, 10 innings, 11 to 13 IP, 14-15 innings, and the only searchable game with 16+ scoreless innings by both starters.

It didn’t buy him a win, but the 7 shutout innings by Andrew Albers marked the third time in 7 career games that he’s gone at least 7 with no runs. The only pitchers to match that since 1916 were Rolando Arrojo (1998, 2 CG shutouts), Pedro Astacio (1992, 3 SHO), Bob Milacki (1982-83, 2 SHO), Steve Rogers (1973, 2 SHO), and Dave “Boo” Ferriss (1945, 4 SHO). Only Ferriss had 4 such games within his first 7.

  • Albers also has an impressive control record. His 3 BB in 45.2 IP would be the 9th-best rate for 40+ innings in the 60-foot era. Just 3 pitchers had a lower walk rate with as many starts as Albers.

 

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Doug
Doug
11 years ago

Can you spot the other “doubular” aspect of that game which is unique in Astros history, and hasn’t been done in the majors since then?

It would be 4 Astros with two doubles apiece. One of the four was starting pitcher Wade Miller. It’s been more than two years since a pitcher had a two double game. There was at least one such game every year from 1992 to 2011, but none at all for 1989 to 1991, or in 1987.

Doug
Doug
11 years ago

In their 18-3 romp, Oakland had 6 players with 2+ hits and 2+ runs, just the second time for an As team since 1969. They also had 8 players with an extra-base hit, just the 9th searchable game for an As team (but 7 of those 9 have come since 1996).

David Horwich
David Horwich
11 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Also, all of the A’s starters had at least 1 H, 1 R, and 1 RBI, which I would suppose is a relatively rare feat. I don’t have the P-I chops to check, though.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago
Reply to  David Horwich

My PI search shows that it happened 45 times.

Doug
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  David Horwich

Sharp eye, David.

It is pretty unusual. For 9-inning games, this is just the 46th time since 1916, and just the 3rd for an As team (by comparison, the Yankees have 7 of those games, though only one came during one of their “dynasties”)

Tm ▴ Opp Date #Matching
OAK KCR 2000-06-18 9
PHA DET 1928-08-16 9
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 9/11/2013.
David Horwich
David Horwich
11 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Thanks for checking, Richard and Doug. So it happens roughly once every other year; that’s rare enough for me.

I don’t know why, but whenever I look at a box score where a team scored an unusually high number of runs I always do a quick scan to see if every starter had a hit, or if they all scored a run, or all had an RBI. I guess we all have our quirks…

Doug
Editor
11 years ago

Re: Clay Buchholz and his 13 start streak without a loss Among streaks starting at the beginning of the season, that’s only the 3rd longest streak of 2013, tied with Matt Harvey. Mat Latos (14) and Max Scherzer (18) had the longer streaks. Scherzer’s 18 games is actually the 4th longest searchable streak to start a season, but well back of Dave McNally’s 26 games in 1969. I’m pretty sure that we’re unlikely to see McNally’s record broken anytime soon. Ironically, he was just “okay” during that run, as were the others at the top of the list. Probably, Scherzer’s… Read more »

Doug
Doug
11 years ago
Reply to  Doug

The last guy on the list above is an interesting one – 6 CG in 18 starts but only 113 IP total. Or 59 IP for the other 12 starts; not usually a harbinger of an undefeated streak. Indeed, he failed to last four innings in 4 of those starts, including 3 starts of 2 innings or less. But, his run support was fantastic – the Reds scored less than 4 runs only once in the streak, including 5 games of 10 runs or more and 4 more games with 7 to 9 runs. After the bubble burst, Lawrence was… Read more »

Paul E
Paul E
11 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Doug:
I may be wrong, but I have to believe Johnny Allen’s 2.72 ERA in the offensive hey-day of 1930’s baseball had to be better than “okay”? If you’re talking K/9, I don’t think that ratio was all that atypical, either.

Supposedly, Rhoden was as good a golfer as any amateur….and a pretty good 3rd starter

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
11 years ago
Reply to  Paul E

In support of Paul’s conjecture, Allen’s ERA for the year was 2.55, and his ERA+ was 176 (both figures 3rd in the AL). His K/9 during the streak and for the season were 4.56 and 4.53. The 4.53 was 8th in the league for the season. And he gave up the fewest HR/9 of anyone in the league. His K/BB ratio was 6th in the league. And those 155.2 innings are about 90% of his season total of 173, so his numbers during the streak are essentially his season numbers. Scherzer’s numbers are definitely more eye-catching (WHIP below 1, K/9… Read more »

Doug
Doug
11 years ago
Reply to  Paul E

Agreed.

AL league-wide ERA in 1937 was 4.62 (Yankees were only team under 4.00), so 2.72 during the streak was very good. His 2.55 ERA for the season placed him 3rd in the AL behind Lefty Gomez (2.33) and Monty Stratton (2.40). Red Ruffing (2.98) was only other pitcher under 3.00.

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago
Reply to  Paul E

Another thing about Allen’s streak is that it was season-long. It ended on the final day, when Allen lost 0-1 on an unearned run. He was very conscious that had he won he would have tied the AL record for consecutive wins, and even a no-decision would have set a record for W-L pct. (one that would still be standing).

Allen wasn’t the shy, sweet sort, and a description of his post-game locker room conduct that I read many years ago indicated that it fell short of the highest standards of gentlemanly sportsmanship.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago

To get a full understanding of Allen’s unstable personality simply read his SABR Baseball Biography Project write-up.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago

I agree about Ichiro’s stats, but I dunno about the example of Balentin.
He put up big power numbers in the minors, got a couple of part-time rookie shots, then went to Japan and picked up where he left off in AAA.

And his surge this year is incongruous with his numbers the last two years.

So either he figured something out and realized his potential or he’s been eating some vaguely legal Japanese aphrodesiac.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/balenwl01.shtml

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

___________________

Aha, no monkey vas deferens pills – it’s the BALL that’s juiced:

http://mlb.si.com/2013/09/11/wladimir-balentien-sadaharu-oh-home-run-record/

David Horwich
David Horwich
11 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Or un-dejuiced, depending on how you want to look at it. This article:

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21674

has a useful graph showing how offensive levels in Japan crashed in 2011 after the introduction of a less livelier ball.

RJ
RJ
11 years ago

Best part of that Jose Fernandez clip is Chris Johnson charging in from third base and immediately hiding behind the home plate umpire.

Jonas Gumby
Jonas Gumby
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

Haha. He had no intention of getting his hands dirty.

Jonas Gumby
Jonas Gumby
11 years ago
Reply to  Jonas Gumby

Our as General Turgidson would say, he didn’t want to get his “hair mussed”

Jason Z
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

By this time of the season those precious bodily
fluids have diminished greatly…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
11 years ago
Reply to  Jonas Gumby

@21,22;

Love the ‘Doctor Strangelove’ references; I can almost hear George C. Scott warning Peter Sellars about the potential “mineshaft gap” with the Russians.

Jason Z
11 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

Ahem… The Duty Officer asked General Ripper to confirm the fact that he had issued the go code, and he said, uh, “Yes gentlemen, they are on their way in, and nobody can bring them back. For the sake of our country, and our way of life, I suggest you get the rest of SAC in after them. Otherwise, we will be totally destroyed by Red retaliation.” Uh… “My boys will give you the best kind of start, 1400 megatons worth, and you sure as hell won’t stop them now.” Uhuh. Uh… “So let’s get going, there’s no other choice.… Read more »

Jason Z
11 years ago
Reply to  Lawrence Azrin

the female-to-male ratio in the mineshafts should be about 10-to-1 — and “women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.

Mike L
Mike L
11 years ago
Reply to  Jonas Gumby

Dr. Strangelove? And not even talking about Dick Stuart..Love when the Prez can’t get the Russian Premier on the phone and the Russian Ambassador gives him a phone number and says “The Premier is a man of the people, but he is also a man, if you know what I mean.” Why else do I come to HHS?

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike L

@31/Mike L,

Come to HHS for the great baseball discussions, then follow along the (convoluted) diversions that can go anywhere…

Ed
Ed
11 years ago

Rich Hill of the Indians needs one more appearance to become just the 28th pitcher with 60+ appearances and an ERA above 6.00. Which brings me to today’s anti-manager rant. In last night’s Indians-Royals game, relief pitcher Bryan Shaw was cruising along, having retired all 7 batters he faced, three by strikeout and needing only 17 pitches total to do so. At this point, Indian’s manager Terry Francona decided to pull Shaw and bring in Mr. Rich Hill. Into a 4-2 game. In the midst of a pennant race. Why oh why would you do that??? Hill is dreadful. And… Read more »

Paul E
Paul E
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

If you’re going anti-manager on us, how about Showalter playing everybody everyday? Maybe someone could do a PI search, but the O’s have to lead the AL in players with G over 135 or 130 or even 140. It seems like McLouth, Machado, Davis, Jones, Wieters (a catcher for csissakes!), Markakais, and Hardy, are playing everyday and Roberts has played a ton since he came back.

Jim Bouldin
11 years ago

“swung over a dead fish” he repeats to himself. Gonna have to explain that one John (and looks to me like he swung under the aforementioned dead fish). On Ichiro. Regarding the NPB homer record, we have the big juiced ball admission over there this year (not controversy, admission). That’s going to affect home run numbers. And I have no idea how they’re controlling the whole steroid problem, if at all. Furthermore, Ichiro must’ve played in shortened seasons over there because his seasonal hit totals are consistently below his MLB numbers. So I think we can safely say that he… Read more »

bstar
bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

I agree totally, John.

The fact that Ichiro has well over 4,000 “professional baseball” hits (aren’t the Japan leagues commonly compared to AAA baseball?) is more of an answer to a trivia question than being anything meaningful.

We don’t play the “what if” game with anyone else; we can’t do it with Ichiro here.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  bstar

I don’t see how Ichiro would have come close to 4,000 hits. He seems most comparable to Tony Gwynn (except Gwywn was better). And Gwynn ended up far, far below 4,000 hits.

And while more games = more opportunities to get hits, it also means more opportunities to get injured.

David Horwich
David Horwich
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

It’s not that difficult to come up with a scenario whereby Ichiro, if he had been drafted by a ML team at age 18, might be approaching 4000 hits. He’s been much more durable than Gwynn was, and he’s batted leadoff the vast majority his career, while Gwynn was mainly a #3 hitter, although he also spent a fair amount of time in the #2 slot. So despite not coming to MLB until age 27, Ichiro has only about 1000 fewer PA than Gwynn. Because of his durability and batting order position, Ichiro has pumped out 200 hit seasons like… Read more »

paget
paget
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

Ed- Seems implausible to compare him to Gwynn from the perspective of career hit totals. Gwynn clocks in at 400 more hits than Ichiro for their MLB careers; do you really feel like Ichiro would have only collected 400 hits over the course of five seasons (age 22 – 26) had he started his career in the States? Even if you have him as an average player with an average amount of hits – say 140 hits per season – that’s still an additional 700 hits. I’m not saying anyone has to play the “what-if” game, much less do I… Read more »

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

David H and Paget – You’ve both laid out reasons why Ichiro might have reached 4,000 hits. But there are lots of counterarguments. Just off the top of my head: 1) Maybe he goes to university which delays the beginning of his career. 2) Maybe he gets drafted by a team that doesn’t do a good job of developing and/or recognizing his talent. 3) Maybe he gets drafted by a team that is already stacked in the OF, thus delaying the start of his career. 4) Maybe he ends up in an organizations where he doesn’t get to bat leadoff… Read more »

paget
paget
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

bstar–
Sorry for the confusion; I was trying to be arch. Yes, of course it has no meaning. That’s what I was trying to drive at — no one actually thinks Ted Williams is “overrrated” as a hitter. And that’s because everyone — well, almost everyone! 🙂 –, in their heads, gives him extra WAR, extra counting stats, extra everything, for the missing years.

Likewise, I’m suggesting that Ichiro-boosters are performing a similar operation.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

The point that Ed makes (#36):

2) Maybe he gets drafted by a team that doesn’t do a good job of developing and/or recognizing his talent.
_______

Beyond that, if you’ve read a bio on Ichiro, the man is a product of a specific form of Japanese discipline.

If he had gotten to America at age 21-22 with our giant hamburgers and giant boobies and, well, 21 is very different from 27.

This is Ichiro at 39:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323494504578340672614346856.html

bstar
bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

I totally disagree, paget.

I don’t think any of us on here are giving credit to Ted Williams for time lost to the war. He doesn’t need it.

If we were to attempt to give Williams credit for time lost, he’d almost certainly have over 3000 hits, maybe 650 HR, etc.

David Horwich
David Horwich
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

Ed @ 36 – To be sure, if Ichiro had played his entire career in MLB he would’ve had to have a lot of things go right, and no major thing go wrong, to have had a chance at 4000 hits. I won’t try to put a number on what I think his chances would’ve been, ’cause I’d just be pulling a number out of my…out of thin air. But I think he would have had *some* chance, which is not something I’d say about, say, Adam Dunn. What prompted my comment, really, was your saying, “He seems most comparable… Read more »

paget
paget
11 years ago
Reply to  bstar

bstar- Just to be clear on my end: the thing is, we *do* play the “what if” game with a lot of players–in particular, players that missed out on career-time due to WWII or (to less of an extent) Korea. Now, Ichiro’s circumstances are different, it goes without saying; in fact he’s in kind of a unique situation. But that doesn’t mean that it’s unreasonable to factor that missing time in to one’s evaluation of him as a player. If it is unreasonable, then you would probably have to say it’s unreasonable for WWII folks as well, and Ted Williams… Read more »

bstar
bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  paget

paget–that link you provide is to an article about the Elo Rater on B-Ref! It has no actual meaning.

If you give credit to players due to time lost due to injury, or playing overseas, or wartime service, that’s your prerogative. But I don’t do that–I think it’s ridiculous.

I’m not entirely sure who you mean when you say “We do play the what if game….”. Who exactly is “we”?

paget
paget
11 years ago
Reply to  paget

Whoops, messed up the format on my comment #38; it’s meant to be a reply to bstar #37 naturally.

Brent
Brent
11 years ago

Here is a little KC Royal quiz: These are the splits for a Royals player this year against LH pitching: .323/.377/.547. Who is it? Billy Butler, nope. Salvy Perez?, nope. Maybe a platoon guy like Justin Maxwell? nope. No, those are Alex Gordon’s splits against lefties this year. He has nearly as many XBH against lefties as righties (25 vs. 27) in only half the plate appearances. If he were hitting RHP like he usually does (.277/.355/.448 career splits) rather than like cr%$ (.245/.305/.379 vs. RHP this year), he would be having a monster year. And he kept it up… Read more »

Brent
Brent
11 years ago
Reply to  Brent

More on Gordon’s odd reverse split advantage this year: According to an article in the KC Star, he has the greatest reverse tOPS+ ever for a LH batter at 139. Next is Nellie Fox’s 1958 season at 136. Then Ichiro in 2005 at 128, Nick Markakis in 2010 at 125, Ichiro again in 2004 at 124, tied with Hideki Matsui from 2005 and Rusty Staub in 1974. Tied at 121 are Keith Hernandez in 1980, Ichiro again in 2002 and Cecil Cooper in 1985.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago
Reply to  Brent

Evidently those splits are for a minimum of 200 PA while batting against a LHP. Missing from that list is Matty Alou who had a tOPS+ of 123 in 1973 with 249 PA.

Brent
Brent
11 years ago

Yeah, probably, I just took the table directly from the KC Star and would not doubt that it could be inaccurate or not fully explained with regard to minimum PA.

Hartvig
Hartvig
11 years ago

I’ve been hoping that the Tigers would would pull the plug and trade Procello for the past couple of seasons, I knew it wasn’t going to happen because they have a fair amount invested in him and it would be one of those kinds of deals that could come back to really haunt you some day but at least if they had done it a couple years ago they might have got something potentially valuable back in return. Now they’re stuck with him for a couple more years unless they pass on arbitration. The funny part is that he’s corrected… Read more »

Jim Bouldin
11 years ago
Reply to  Hartvig

I think your last sentence is the key one. He may be only “consistently mediocre”, when judged against all pitchers, but the real comparison is how he compares to other #5 starters in the league. Without tracking down the numbers, that’s very likely to be “favorably”. All his significant stats trend toward the better over his career. And he’s still only what, 24? Still much time for improvement. I’m actually much more concerned about Verlander at this point.

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
11 years ago

Random, completely non-statistical Thursday game note (as a comment on Wednesday’s game notes because I don’t know where else to put it):

There were only eleven games last night, but five were between teams whose nicknames are alphabetically adjacent: Brewers-Cardinals, Dodgers-Giants, Mets-Nationals, Padres-Phillies, and Rays-Red Sox.

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

I have absolutely no idea, and I’m really burning through brain cells trying. I’ve always been terrible at the HHS pop quizzes.

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Then I actually DID know it! The first thing I noticed were all of those NL teams clustered in the middle, and then that they were broken into divisions. Well, now I feel pretty good about myself!

PaulE
PaulE
11 years ago

E Pluribus Unum:
Could Allen’s reaction been any worse than that childish rant by Pete Rose about Gene Garber’s failure to challenge him with fastballs while his 44-game hit streak was on the line? Wow! A major horse’s ass with multiple hoofs in mouth, Pete was a little disappointed……