Circle of Greats 1949-Part 1 Balloting

This post is for voting and discussion in the twenty-third round of balloting for the Circle of Greats.  This round begins to add those players born in 1949.  Rules and lists are after the jump.

Players born in 1949 will be brought on to the COG eligible list over two rounds — the top half of the alphabet this round and the bottom half of the alphabet next round.  The new group joins the holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full group eligible to receive your votes this round.  The new group of 1949-born players, in order to join the eligible list, must have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers).

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players.  The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats.  Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility.  Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility.  Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM EDT on Tuesday, July 9, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM EDT Sunday, July 7.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: COG 1949 Round 1 Vote Tally .  I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes.  Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted. Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the new born-in-1949 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players.  The 12 current holdovers (10 were on the 1950 ballot and two, Edgar Martinez and Kenny Lofton, return after finishing first and second in the just-completed redemption round) are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility, and alphabetically when the future eligibility number is the same.  The new group of 1949 birth-year guys are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors, and alphabetically among players with the same number of seasons played.  In total there were 42 players born in 1949 who met the “10 seasons played or 20 WAR” minimum requirement.  21 of those are being added to the eligible list this round (alphabetically from Doug Bair through Fred Kendall).  The 21 players further down in the alphabet will be added next round.

Holdovers:
Tony Gwynn (eligibility guaranteed for 15 rounds)
Lou Whitaker (eligibility guaranteed for 8 rounds)
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 7 rounds)
Alan Trammell (eligibility guaranteed for 6 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Roberto Alomar (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Dwight Evans (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Kenny Lofton (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Edgar Martinez (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Eddie Murray (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Dave Winfield (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1949, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Rick Dempsey
Bill Buckner
Dusty Baker
Don Baylor
George Hendrick
Cecil Cooper
Oscar Gamble
Bobby Grich
Phil Garner
Enos Cabell
Mike Hargrove
Ron Hodges
Fred Kendall

Pitchers (born in 1949, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Vida Blue
Doug Bair
Mike Caldwell
Jim Kern
Al Hrabosky
Dave Goltz
Ed Farmer
Don Hood

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Mike
Mike
11 years ago

Sandberg
Winfield
Tony Gwynn, Sr

Bix
Bix
11 years ago

Gwynn, Biggio, Grich

ATarwerdi96
ATarwerdi96
11 years ago

Tony Gwynn, Edgar Martinez, Bobby Grich

Chris C
Chris C
11 years ago

Craig Biggio, Edgar Martinez, Ryne Sandberg

I’m happy Raines got elected so I now have an extra vote to use an another player. I think Edgar gets that vote for me now. He really should be in.

Torn on not voting for Dwight Evans. May switch my vote later. Shout out to Bill Buckner. 2nd shout out to Bobby Grich who may deserve to be mixed in with the 2B(Whitaker, Biggio, Alomar, Sandberg) logjam.

Hartvig
Hartvig
11 years ago

This is a really tough one. My favorite player has a reasonable shot at winning, 2 others that I’m convinced belong have only a single seasons eligibility plus a new candidate who’s excluded from the Hall of Fame who may just have the best case of any for inclusion from both the traditional and advanced measures crowd. I’m not sure if I’ve come back & changed any of my ballots yet but I could certainly see that happening this time around. For now: Trammell Sandberg Grich It’s almost physically painful to vote for Trammell & not vote for Whitaker plus… Read more »

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago

Top of the lineup:

Kenny Lofton
Roberto Alomar
Tony Gwynn
___________________

Note: Bobby Grich had a 5 year peak averaging 7.0 WAR

David Horwich
David Horwich
11 years ago

Alomar, Gwynn, Edgar Martinez

Darien
11 years ago

Lofton, Gwynn, and Trammell

elkboy3
elkboy3
11 years ago

This is a group with really similar overall value. Plug them all into WARgraphs and they almost all come in between 60 and 72.

Murray
Edgar (10 best seasons all over 5 WAR; only Murray and Grich have 10 seasons over 4 WAR)
Bobby Grich

bstar
11 years ago

Shout-out to Enos Cabell for most assuredly being the skinniest position player to ever play major-league ball. B-Ref says 6-foot-4, 170. Is that in milligrams?

Lofton
Trammell
Smoltz

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  bstar

Bstar – I still get a kick out of Bill James’ classic anti-Enos Cabell/Sparky Anderson rant: “When Enos Cabell was hot early in the year, you’d ask Sparky Anderson about him and Sparky would say “Enos Cabell is a we ballplayer. You don’t hear Enos Cabell saying ‘I did this’ and ‘I did that.'” I think that’s what drives me nuts about Sparky Anderson, that he’s so full of brown stuff that it just doesn’t seem like he has any words left over for a basic, fundamental understanding of the game. I want to look at a player on the… Read more »

brp
brp
11 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

He had 15 RField that year compared to a high number of 6 in any other season… so that 3.2 WAR in 1983 Detroit is probably not the greatest thing to go by.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

In fairness to Mr. James, his comment re: Cabell and Anderson was written after the 1982 season, a year in which Cabell had negative WAR. In fact it was Cabell’s 4th straight season with negative WAR, all while playing full-time.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  brp

BTW, Bill James once met Enos Cabell and said that Cabell was clearly aware of what James had written and that he was quite gracious about it: “I believe I told this story to several reporters, but I don’t remember ever seeing it in print so I’ll tell you again. One of the agents I worked for was Tom Reich and I went to a party at Tom’s house and Enos Cabell was there. I was introduced to him and there was no look of recognition in his eyes and I thought, “Thank God.” But, later in the evening, I… Read more »

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

I liked Anderson as a manager, but I did enjoy the way James needled him – and I enjoyed the self-depreciating way James began a book by agreeing with most of some vitiolic remark that Anderson had made about him. But if I recall, in his book on managers James wound up saying mostly positive things about Anderson, and acknowledging that his relentless player-boosterism could be an asset, much along the lines of your point, birtelcom.

bstar
11 years ago

Oh, do share the vitriol from Sparky’s retort. This is fun.

I’m certainly in the player-boosterism camp. It was Bobby Cox’s greatest asset.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Sparky may have boosted his players in public, but behind the scenes was sometimes another story. Joe Posnanski noted the now famous address to the Reds at the start of spring training 1975 (I’ll paraphrase): There are four stars on this team — Bench, Perez, Rose and Morgan. The rest of you are turds. I’m not saying that was bad — just saying, Sparky wasn’t Chuck Tanner. He also ran Howard Johnson out of town after ’84. HoJo’s hitting talent was crystal clear in the minors, but Sparky implicitly harped on his defense. HoJo really got just one year as… Read more »

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago

Ok, bstar (@55), I made a trip to the bookshelf and found the quote (actually James’s retort to Anderson): “I was once described . . . by Sparky Anderson as a little fat guy with a beard who knows nothing about nothing. Actually, I’m seven inches taller than Sparky is, but what the heck, three out of four ain’t bad . . .” (Perhaps ‘vitriolic’ was not quite the right adjective – it could have been better spelled, too.) John (@56), the same shelf has James’s book on managers, and I checked that he does indeed say that Anderson’s greatest… Read more »

bstar
11 years ago

Great stuff, epm et al.

The genesis of my comment about Cabell came from viewing a rebroadcast on MLB Network (why don’t they do those anymore?) of a Phils-Astros 1980 NLCS game. I was startled at how under-bulked ALL the players were, but I was completely taken aback by Cabell. Just a twig. It was probably the extra height that made Enos seem so thin.

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
11 years ago
Reply to  bstar

He’s no seven-foot-seven, two-hundred-pound Manute Bol.

Jeff Harris
Jeff Harris
11 years ago

Whitaker, Trammell, Smoltz.

koma
koma
11 years ago

Tony Gwynn, Lou Whitaker, John Smoltz

Nick Pain
Nick Pain
11 years ago

Whitaker, Murray, Lofton

JEV
JEV
11 years ago

Gwynn, Smoltz, Biggio

aweb
aweb
11 years ago

Whitaker, Trammell, Grich.

Grich joins the pile-up in the middle IF, hurt some by a truly awful postseason record (.182/.247/.318 in 98 PA). Also is another in the list of guys who had great partial seasons in 1981. It looks like he left with something in the tank – did he retire due to injuries? Give Grich a shot at the lively 1987 ball, maybe he sticks around a few more years after hitting 25 HR.

Mike L
Mike L
11 years ago

I’m not inspired. Gwynne, Sandberg, Winfield. I’m still not inspired.

brp
brp
11 years ago

Scrap Iron! The Human Rain Delay! The Mad Hungarian!

We used to have much better nicknames. Voting for none of those guys, but:
Grich
Martinez
Whitaker

Dr. Remulak
Dr. Remulak
11 years ago

Gwynn, Biggio, Winfield.

Dalton Mack
Editor
11 years ago

Whitaker, Lofton, Grich

Bryan O'Connor
Editor
11 years ago

Wins Above Average, excluding negative seasons:

Trammell 44.7
Grich 43.6
Whitaker 42.7
Martinez 41.3
Smoltz 40.1
Lofton 39.3
Sandberg 38.8
Alomar 36.8
Gwynn 36.5
Biggio 36.3
Murray 34.9
Evans 34.7
Winfield 31.7

I’m committed to voting for the best pitcher (Smoltz) and the best hitter (Edgar) on the ballot until they’re elected. That leaves six similarly valuable middle infielders and Gwynn, all within 8.5 WAA of each other. I’ll defer to the guy at the top of the list.

Smoltz
Martinez
Trammell

KalineCountry
KalineCountry
11 years ago

Trammell
Whitaker
Grich

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
11 years ago

We’re getting to the point where I’m starting to not know players- I know the name Bobby Grich, but absolutely nothing about him. I guess that’s inevitable, considering we’re at the point where players retired around the time I was born. With that said, I still nearly put him on my ballot based on WAR alone. However, my votes today go to Gwynn, Whitaker, and Sandberg- the now-mythical beast I have just decided to name Gwyitaberg. Sorry, Smoltzie- I’ll probably change my mind and put you on the ballot next time. After all, pretty much my only voting trend is… Read more »

The Diamond King
11 years ago

Murray, Gwynn, Smoltz

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago

Gwynn, Martinez, Smoltz

Mo
Mo
11 years ago

Trammel, Whitaker, Gwynn

Lawrence Azrin
Lawrence Azrin
11 years ago

Strategerizing my strategery:

– Roberto Alomar (I’m not going to let him drop off the ballot, after 19 years)
– Dwight Evan (showing my Red Sox)
– Kenny Lofton (can’t let him drop off the ballot, after just getting back on…)

Gary Bateman
Gary Bateman
11 years ago

Gwynn (hope he finally gets to the top), Alomar and Sandberg (trying to keep them alive)

Insert Name Here
Insert Name Here
11 years ago

Initial vote, based solely on merit (no strategy yet): 1. Kenny Lofton (6.7 WAR/162 during 1992-99) 2. Bobby Grich (6.6 WAR/162 during 1972-83) — You weren’t expecting that one, huh? Seriously though, this man belongs in the HOF and probably the COG as well. 3. Alan Trammell (6.4 WAR/162 during 1980-90) For the first time in a while, I’m not rooting for Trammell: I’d like to see Lofton or Grich make it in, however unlikely that is. Ranking of other HOF-worthy candidates: 4. Ryne Sandberg (6.2 WAR/162 during 1984-92) 5. Craig Biggio (5.8 WAR/162 during 1991-99) 6. Lou Whitaker (5.5… Read more »

Chad
Chad
11 years ago

Whitaker
Trammell
Murray

Doug
Editor
11 years ago

Grich, Martinez, Lofton A plug for Bobby Grich, one of my favorites. Many people just don’t realize how good he was. Here are the expansion era second basemen, by WAR. On a WAR/game or WAR/PA basis, Grich tops all of them except Morgan and Utley. Rk Player WAR/pos OPS+ Rfield PA R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS 1 Joe Morgan 100.3 132 -49 11329 1650 2517 449 96 268 1133 1865 1015 689 162 .271 .392 .427 .819 2 Lou Whitaker 74.8 117 75 9967 1386 2369 420 65 244 1084 1197… Read more »

Jeff
Jeff
11 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Can anyone explain Chase Utley’s ridiculously high defensive RField numbers? You mean to tell me he’s 34 points better than Randolph who happens to be 33 points higher than Grich who’s 6 higher than Whitaker? So Utley by this is the best defensive 2nd baseman since who??? EVER? Somebody throw me a bone here.

Also, Jeff Kent Raked…look at those offensive numbers.

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

Jeff, those are career numbers. Try dividing these up into a seasonal average number and the differences may not look so stark to you. But another reason is because B-Ref used TZ for pre-2003, so all the players you listed had TZ to evaluate their defense while Utley’s career is defined by DRS numbers. TZ tends to yield lower numbers for great fielders than the newer DRS and UZR metrics. If you want to attempt to learn why (I’m not sure I fully understand it), here’s a math-heavy link that tries to explain it. I believe my link takes you… Read more »

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

TZ has Utley at +68 for his career, which would put him behind all those players you listed. So it’s the different metric driving all of this.

Kirk
Kirk
11 years ago

Gwynn, Alomar & Smoltz

Andy
Andy
11 years ago

Gwynn, Biggio, Ryno.

Abbott
Abbott
11 years ago

Gwynn, Smoltz, Biggio

bryanM
bryanM
11 years ago

thought I voted , can’t find it now — Whitaker, Trammell, Edgar M —

CursedClevelander
CursedClevelander
11 years ago

Lofton, Gwynn, Grich. It’s hard to exclude some of these guys, but a three-man ballot does that to you. Don’t know much about Fred Kendall, but I always felt his son was heading for a Hall of Fame career based on his first few seasons. 19.9 bWAR from 1996-2000, covering 653 Gs and 2682 PAs. 1999 especially is an insane year if you extrapolate out (he only played 78 games, due to an awful ankle injury); his numbers work out to something like 45 SBs! As a catcher! Obviously, his career didn’t continue on a HoF pace, but he’s a… Read more »

birtelcom
birtelcom
11 years ago

Am I right that this is your first COG vote, CC? If so, welcome aboard!

Nice point, reminding us that Fred was Jason’s dad. Only Terry Kennedy and Benito Santiago have caught more games for the Padres than Fred.

CursedClevelander
CursedClevelander
11 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

Indeed birtel, it’s my first COG vote, and thanks for the kind salutations! I hope to be a regular voter from now on; since I finished that silly little college diversion, I can get back to the important work of baseball discussion! 🙂

--bill
--bill
11 years ago

Trammell, Martinez, Grich.

And one vote for Oscar Gamble for the Circle of Great Hair.

Luis Gomez
Luis Gomez
11 years ago

I already lose track of how many times my ballot has looked exactly the same:

Gwynn, Alomar, Whitaker.

Luis Gomez
Luis Gomez
11 years ago
Reply to  Luis Gomez

…and I also LOST track of how many typos I´ve made so far.

Phil
11 years ago

I’m a ’70s guy, so my heart votes for Vida, Hrabosky, and Gamble (nobody deserves the initials “OG” more)—be hard to find a threesome that better captures everything that made that decade so entertaining.

My actual vote again goes to Gwynn, Alomar, and Winfield.

CursedClevelander
CursedClevelander
11 years ago
Reply to  Phil

Unfortunately Phil, your “heart” ballot would be invalid; Gamble’s hair is so big it actually requires its own spot on the ballot! 🙂

In honor of Gamble’s afro, I present a picture of Ronnie Belliard from about 7/8 years ago during a game when the Tribe wore their retro red 70’s jerseys, surely one of the most polarizing uniforms in sports history (I love them, but I know a lot of people despise them). Belliard picked out his afro in honor of Oscar:

comment image

Aidan Mattson
Aidan Mattson
11 years ago

Eddie Murray, Tony Gwynn and Vida Blue

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
11 years ago

Gwynn, Alomar, and Edgar

opal611
opal611
11 years ago

For the 1949 (Part One) election, I’m voting for:
-Tony Gwynn
-Ryne Sandberg
-Edgar Martinez

Other top candidates I considered highly (and/or will consider in future rounds):
-Biggio (Voted for Previously. Hopefully only temporarily off my ballot)
-Alomar (Voted for Previously. Hopefully only temporarily off my ballot)
-Smoltz
-Trammell
-Whitaker
-Murray
-Evans
-Winfield
-Grich
-Lofton

J.R.
J.R.
11 years ago

Gwynn, Biggio, Grich

RonG
RonG
11 years ago

Grich, Trammell, Smoltz

Mike G.
Mike G.
11 years ago

Smoltz, Grich, Trammell

wx
wx
11 years ago

Bobby Grich, Edgar Martinez, Lou Whitaker

robbs
robbs
11 years ago

Trammell Whitaker Gwynn

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
11 years ago

I’m late to the party this round. I just moved this week, though, so I haven’t exactly had reliable internet, nor time. But anyway, here’s my ballot of middle infielders, because I just can’t vote for anyone else yet:

Bobby Grich
Alan Trammell
Ryne Sandberg

mosc
mosc
11 years ago

Gwynn, Winfield, Sandberg

Jeff
Jeff
11 years ago

TONY GWYNN, Kenny Lofton, John Smoltz

Missed it by that much…Edgar Martinez.

jeff b
jeff b
11 years ago

Smoltz Murray and winfield