Circle of Greats 1948 Balloting

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This post is for voting and discussion in the twenty-second round of balloting for the Circle of Greats. This round adds those players born in 1948. Rules and lists are after the jump.

The new group joins the holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full group eligible to receive your votes this round. The new group of 1948-born players must, as always, have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers).

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players. The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats. Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM EDT on Wednesday, July 24, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM EDT Monday, July 22.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: 1948 COG Vote Tally . I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes. Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted. Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the new born-in-1948 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players. The twelve current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility, and alphabetically when the future eligibility number is the same. The new group of 1948 birth-year guys are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors, and alphabetically among players with the same number of seasons played.

Holdovers:
Lou Whitaker (eligibility guaranteed for 9 rounds)
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 7 rounds)
Alan Trammell (eligibility guaranteed for 7 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Bobby Grich (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Edgar Martinez (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Roberto Alomar (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Kenny Lofton (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Eddie Murray (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Rick Reuschel (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ted Simmons (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Dave Winfield (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1948, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Dave Concepcion
Steve Garvey
George Foster
Bill Russell
Ron Cey
Chris Chambliss
Toby Harrah
Mike Jorgensen
Buck Martinez
Johnny Grubb
Dave Kingman
Lee Lacy
Steve Braun
Cesar Geronimo
Rick Miller
Mickey Rivers
Steve Yeager
Willie Montanez
John Ellis
Dave Cash
Darrel Chaney
Bill North
Von Joshua
Carlos May
Dave Rader
Eric Soderholm

Pitchers (born in 1948, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Charlie Hough
Bill Campbell
John Curtis
Ken Brett
Tom Griffin
Dave LaRoche
Reggie Cleveland
Jim Barr
Randy Moffitt
Aurelio Lopez
Doc Medich
Bill Bonham
Lerrin LaGrow
Gary Nolan
Wayne Twitchell

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Hartvig

11 years ago

Trammell, Sandberg, Martinez

Hartvig

11 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

Just saw Phil’s #9.

Mine is Edgar too, not Buck even though he’s an old favorite

Mike

11 years ago

Smoltz
Biggio
Winfield

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

One scheduling note: After this round ends next Wednesday night and the results are announced, the COG will go on a two-week hiatus as yours truly travels briefly off the grid. But the Circle of Greats voting will return in mid-August, and I hope you will, too.

Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Sorry to see the hiatus (especially with some exciting rounds featuring Johnny Bench, Nolan Ryan, Carlton Fisk, and Reggie Jackson coming up in the next two rounds), but I hope you enjoy your hiatus. This will likely be a case, I think, of absence making the heart grow fonder!

ATarwerdi96

11 years ago

Edgar Martinez, Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker

David

11 years ago

Whitaker trammelll murray

Jeff Harris

11 years ago

Whitaker, Trammell, Smoltz

Bix

11 years ago

Grich, Alomar, Lofton

Phil

11 years ago

Three-fourths of the famous Dodgers infield come onto the ballot at the same time (plus Yeager)…Favourite ’70s flake on the list: Mick the Quick. Vote: Alomar, Winfield, Martinez.

11 years ago

Reply to Phil

Bill Russell: 18 seasons in the majors, all with 190+ PAs, and NEVER had an OPS+ higher than 99.

Longtime teammate Ron Cey was basically the opposite. 17 seasons in the majors and had an OPS+ above 100 in 15 of them. The only exceptions were 1971 (only 2 PAs) and 1985 (94 OPS+).

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to Ed

I found only one other player with a career nearly as long as Russell’s with no seasons of 100 OPS+ and 190 PA every season:

-Larry Bowa, 16 seasons in the majors, OPS+ high of 94.

Lawrence Azrin

11 years ago

Reply to Phil

@19/ED,

Royce Clayton: 17 years/2108 games in MLB, and NEVER had an OPS+ higher than 98 (only twice higher than 84; Russell had 7 such years).

I checked other good-field, no-hit shortstops, such as Luis Aparicio, Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel, Phil Rizzuto and Rabbit Maranville; all had at least one season with an OPS+ better than 100 (Ozzie had four).

Richard Chester

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Don Kessinger, George McBride and Dick Schofield also never exceeded 99 OPS+. In 18 years Mark Belanger did it once in 18 years with a single season of 100. Alfredo Griffin did it once in 18 seasons but in a season with 6 PA.

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Jose Vizcaino had 18 seasons with a high OPS+ (twice) of only 90. He was at 78 or lower in 13 of those 18 seasons. Career was 76 OPS+ in almost 6000 PAs, but somehow compiled 7.1 WAR, 4.7 on defense.

Leo Durocher had almost the same PA as Vizcaino in 17 seasons, although he had fewer than 20 games in 4 of those 17 seasons. His highest OPS+ (twice) was only 82. Career was 66 OPS+ with 5.1 WAR, but 11.4 WAR on defense.

Phil

11 years ago

Um, Edgar, that is.

Chris C

11 years ago

Craig Biggio, Edgar Martinez, Eddie Murray

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

So I’m guessing this is one of the weakest new classes we’ll have for quite a while?

A lot of interesting names (Cey, Garvey, Foster, Concepcion, Harrah) but no obvious COG-worthy standouts.

BryanM

11 years ago

Whitaker, Trammell, Edgar Martinez. ( in case there is some other Martinez eligible this year. Hurts not to vote for the penguin

koma

11 years ago

Lou Whitaker, John Smoltz, Craig Biggio

elkboy3

11 years ago

Edgar Martinez, Reuschel, Murray

eeasterberg

11 years ago

Whitaker, Trammell, Sandberg

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to eeasterberg

You picked an interesting round to join in the voting, ee, welcome aboard.

bstar

11 years ago

Lofton, Biggio, Smoltz

Editor

Dalton Mack

11 years ago

Whitaker, Grich, Lofton

11 years ago

Charlie Hough:

– 1 start by the age of 30
– Dodgers career (age 22 to 31): 799.2 IP, 16 starts, 3.0 WAR
– Thereafter (age 31 to 46): 3001.2 IP, 424 starts, 36.5 WAR

11 years ago

Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Alan Trammell

Editor

Bryan O'Connor

11 years ago

Wins Above Average, excluding negative seasons:

Trammell 44.7
Grich 43.6
Whitaker 42.7
Martinez 41.3
Reuschel 40.6
Smoltz 40.1
Lofton 39.3
Sandberg 38.8
Alomar 36.8
Biggio 36.3
Murray 34.9
Winfield 31.7
Simmons 28.5
Cey 28.3
Foster 24.6

Trammell, Edgar, Smoltz.
Best player, best hitter, best pitcher.

Mike HBC

11 years ago

Smoltz, Ryno, Biggio

e pluribus munu

11 years ago

Whitaker, Trammell, Smoltz.

I appreciated Edgar, but I’m afraid I still can’t get my head around the idea of treating a DH as a full player, and after forty years, I suppose the likelihood I will grow more flexible with age is declining as I do.

Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Reply to e pluribus munu

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about relief pitchers? I guess I view relief pitchers and DHs in a pretty similar way: on the one hand, they’re not contributing nearly as much as the other players. On the other hand, they don’t necessarily choose how they’re going to be used; all they can do is go where the manager puts them in the lineup, and do their best. Do you see these as similar, or are they completely different?

e pluribus munu

11 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Good question, Doom! – and one I’ve never asked myself in this context, so I have to scramble defensively for an answer – I may not give a good one. I agree there are similarities and, in fact, I do have a strong prejudice against RPs as Hall candidates, though not in principle, only in terms of the sorts of metrics that could cross the threshold. (Mariano is the first 100% RP whom I really feel comfortable supporting for the Hall, though I do have special appreciation for effective crossovers like Wilhelm, Eck, Wood, Smoltz.) Here’s two-part answer: 1) A… Read more »

Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Reply to e pluribus munu

Haha. Thanks. I guess I have my counterarguments, but that’s not important right now. Thanks for putting in the effort to answer.

brp

11 years ago

Reply to e pluribus munu

I disagree. Even the best, most impactful reliever in recent memory – Mo, for example – has fewer than 300 batters faced in most of his seasons. A full-time DH will log about 600 PAs. Even if he never sets foot on the field, the DH is involved in twice as much as a relief pitcher. Also, regarding your first point- aren’t a lot of relievers failed starters who are put in the pen to hide a weakness, such as erratic control or a lack of secondary pitches? With regard to #2, wouldn’t Edgar or Big Papi benefit from knowing… Read more »

e pluribus munu

11 years ago

Reply to brp

I think your first point is a good argument, brp. It would tend to push me away from the RP-in-Hall camp more than towards the DH-in-Hall position. But I do think it needs rethinking. Your initial analogy seems to ignore two matters: the normal metrics of “involvement” by regulars vs. pitchers, and the unequal form of involvement in defensive vs. offensive innings. A top starting pitcher (I’m eyeballing CC) will face about 900 batters per year, pitching to all *and* playing a normal fielder’s role. So a top closer may put in about 1/3 of that total over the course… Read more »

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to brp

I share your skepticism of a DH being a Hall of Famer, epm. A question to those who disagree: How much WAR would Edgar Martinez have if he had played in the National League? I’d say maybe half his career total, because he couldn’t play the field every day. Same problem with Ortiz. How does he accumulate that much career value without the DH to save him? It’s also unfair to those who finished their careers in the National League and didn’t have the DH option. How much more WAR would Chipper Jones have if he could have DH’ed the… Read more »

Lawrence Azrin

11 years ago

Reply to e pluribus munu

57/brq, I agree with you on the relative value of DHs vs. relievers. For me, a DH has to hit just a bit better than a bad-fielding first baseman, or somewhat better than a bad-fielding corner outfielder, to have about the same value. Whereas, for a relief pitcher… A closer pitches 60-80 innings a year (I used Rivera as a model). A top starter, not missing a turn, pitches 210-240 innings a year. I know about “leverage”, or the higher value of those innings that a closer pitches compared to a starter, but there’s _no way_ those innings can be… Read more »

brp

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

@59 & 60, I generally agree with you guys but wanted to nitpick a little 🙂 My point wasn’t to argue for DHs to be in the HOF or COG necessarily, just to say that an argument could be made that they’re more valuable than relief pitchers even though they have limited involvement in the game. Also the leverage concept is a bit irksome to me; I get the idea but a run allowed in the 2nd inning isn’t that much different than the 8th… WPA will argue against that of course, but anyway. After all this, I’m not voting… Read more »

e pluribus munu

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Odd way to characterize Smoltz, brp – he won over 200 games as a starter (and was 13-4 as a postseason starter).

But maybe you mean the 50 starts he won after his 150-save career interruption.

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Agreed, epm, I’ve always said the reverse about Smoltz; i.e., he was a great starter who “proved” he could close. I think we assume almost all elite starters would also be elite closers, they’re just too valuable to limit them to under 100 innings. Sure, I might be discounting the mental aspect of closing a tad bit, and there’s also the part about pitching on consecutive days/whenever needed instead of having a regular every-fifth-day schedule, but talent is talent, and guys like Maddux and Pedro were going to be outstanding in any possible role. I’ve always wondered about Rivera. Obviously,… Read more »

mosc

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Can we be more educated on here than to say “one pitch” please? His cutter has more movement than some guy’s sliders and he regularly throws a 4sfb with no break, particularly against Righties (I’d say he more often throws the 4 seamer against righties than the cutter). They’re both fastballs and the velocities are close (the 4sfb sits 1-3mph faster mattering on how he’s feeling) but they are two very distinct pitches and the difference between the two pitches is a key to his success against righties and lefties, throughout his relief career.

mosc

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

…and since I’m bored I’ll expand He has occasionally, especially in the past 5 years or so, used a 2sfb inside against right handed hitters. It’s movement is small and it’s velocity is slightly lower than his cutter. It’s not that good a pitch. I’ve seen him mostly use it to try and induce a double play against a right handed batter. Probably less than 5% of his pitch breakdown. I’m also a subscriber to the Carlton slider = Rivera cutter line of thinking. They are wide spinning pitches (no red dot) that look a lot like a 4sfb and… Read more »

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

@mosc: Sorry, didn’t mean to be vague. I put “one pitch” in quotations because I know that he utilizes a 4-seamer even though the media usually calls him a “one pitch pitcher.” Still, most of his success has come from the cutter/4 seam combo (with a much higher percentage of cutters), and that might not have been enough as a starter. Of course, had he been moved back to the rotation, he’d have likely worked on adding pitches; it’s not like a pitcher’s arsenal is a static thing that never changes. Maybe he’d have gone the Clemens route and added… Read more »

Chris C

11 years ago

Reply to e pluribus munu

One problem with the anti-DH sentiment is you penalize a guy for being a team player. I remember when Giambi signed as a free agent with the NYY – he was adamant that he didn’t want to be a DH. He wanted to help the team in the field too. So he forced his team to put a slightly superior fielder(Nick Johnson) at DH while he hurt them defensively. I’m sure Edgar Martinez could have complained enough to play (poorly) in the field too. It would have hurt the Mariner’s win totals each year but he’d became a no-brainer for… Read more »

e pluribus munu

11 years ago

Reply to Chris C

Interesting argument, Chris. It certainly works in terms of putting team before self, but I’m not sure willingness to relieve a team of one’s inferior fielding is a persuasive addition to a HoF argument.

As for accepting the DH, I’ve come around to a willingness to consider it post-mortem.

Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Reply to e pluribus munu

So, I can’t reply to everyone, but I do have a few thoughts. 1. Are AL pitchers post-1973 ALSO one-way players? I mean, they didn’t hit, and that’s half of the game. I don’t really see how the argument “but their main job is to pitch” has any relevance: Edgar Martinez’s “main job” was to hit. It’s what he was hired for. So that’s pretty much moot. 2. I just don’t see how a player can be punished for playing a position he had no control over needing to exist. We don’t punish Randy Johnson for being a terrible hitter,… Read more »

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Doom, some replies to your points: 1. AL pitchers would have hit without the DH rule, and Edgar would have had to field a position. I can’t see how Edgar could have played every day with his bad knees, so his WAR might be, what, 1/2 to 2/3 of what it is, maybe less? 2. Yes, Randy Johnson was a terrible hitter. But he only cost his team -2.2 WAR as a hitter, which is a negligible loss. I don’t think comparing pitchers as hitters to DH’s is an apt comparison. 3. Edgar was a good fielder when his knees… Read more »

Lawrence Azrin

11 years ago

Reply to bstar

Ortz is not a _horrible_ defensive first baseman, certainly not as bad as Frank Thomas was. Ortiz certainly isn’t good, but he has a decent arm and decent instincts – in the 2004 World Series, he made a throw to cut down a runner at third that the regular RS first baseman Kevin Millar probably wouldn’t have even attempted, because his arm was nowere as good. No, the reason he doesn’t play first (except sometimes in interleague games), is because the risk of injury for him when playing first is just too great. Frank Thomas – now there’s a player,… Read more »

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Fair or not, I judge Edgar a bit differently than most DH’s because I think he probably *could* have been an average fielder at 3B, and almost certainly above average at 1B. His early numbers there are quite good. Compare that with, say, Travis Hafner, one of my favorite players, and maybe the AL’s best hitter from 2004 to 2006. Pronk was a bad defensive 1B in 2003, and that’s when he was *young*. I can only imagine how terrifyingly, Dick Stuart-ishly bad he would be nowadays as a 36 year old on coleslaw knees. Oh, I was going to… Read more »

e pluribus munu

11 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

A long post, but a good one, Doc. I actually didn’t forget that Edgar was ok at 3b, but I thought he was more or less average, not better. In any event I see the crucial difference here not being a matter of focusing on what a DH couldn’t do, it’s what he didn’t do that’s the problem. Treating a DH as a regular player is, for me, a little like giving credit for military service (without the same ethical factors) – we assume he’d have played at some norm in the field if he’d played, but, in fact, he… Read more »

Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Grich, Trammell, Sandberg. I’m stickin’ with the middle infield this round.

Richard Chester

11 years ago

Edgar Martinez, Smoltz, Murray

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

Initial vote based solely on merit, for three holdovers: 1. Kenny Lofton (6.7 WAR/162 during 1992-99) 2. Bobby Grich (6.6 WAR/162 during 1972-83) 3. Alan Trammell (6.4 WAR/162 during 1980-90) Here’s the ranking of the other HOF-caliber candidates: 4. Ryne Sandberg (6.2 WAR/162 during 1984-92) 5. Craig Biggio (5.8 WAR/162 during 1991-99) 6. Lou Whitaker (5.5 WAR/162 during 1979-93) 7. Eddie Murray (5.7 WAR/162 during 1978-86) 8. Rick Reuschel (5.5 WAR/162 during 1973-80) 9. Edgar Martínez (6.4 WAR/162 during 1995-2001) 10. George Foster (6.4 WAR/162 during 1975-80) 11. Ron Cey (5.8 WAR/162 during 1974-80) 12. Roberto Alomar (6.0 WAR/162 during… Read more »

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

Reply to Insert Name Here

Didn’t even realize that Grich is a 2B in fact — I thought of him as a 3B for some reason (he was before my time anyway).

The Diamond King

11 years ago

Murray, Smoltz, Alomar

aweb

11 years ago

I seem to be a definite “long peak” guy…I love the WaaWL% stats on bbref – basically, would they have helped an average team, or hurt them (It’s just WAA translated to a different scale, I believe). I seem to have a comparative dislike for guys who hung around a long time between average and replacement (Biggio, Murray, Winfield, Hough) Grich: I’m willing to trust the advanced stats that say he was great. WaaWL% say he helps an average team 16 years in a row, counting a very small 1971 season. Retired while still productive, another mental bonus point from… Read more »

Lawrence Azrin

11 years ago

Reply to aweb

@33/awbe,

As for Grich retiring while still productive – he retired after the 1986 ALCS against the Red Sox, because he was very disappointed in his play in the series (.208/.269/.333, plus several bad plays in the field). I vaguely recall at the time there was a bit of controversy about it – perhaps an unfortunate choice of words? This wouldn’t be surprising, considering the heartbreaking nature of the Angels loss.

Grich probably would’ve been better at second for the Angels in 1987 than Mark McLemore, though not in 1988 (Johnny Ray).

Brent

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

I would guess Grich’s retirement was the second most extreme reaction of Angels’ players to that heartbreaking loss. All things considered, it was certainly better than the first most extreme (RIP Donny Moore)

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to aweb

aweb: “..[Lou Whitaker has]..likely the best career WAR among guys with no plausible single-season argument for an MVP award” Interesting thought, and I think you’re close to right, assuming you meant position players only. I found two guys with higher WAR totals than Lou who may not have warranted the near-MVP they almost won. Wahoo Sam Crawford did place second in MVP voting in 1914 but was only eighth in the AL in WAR that year. The best WAR finish in the AL for Whitaker I can find is sixth in 1983. Paul Molitor is another good comp. He, like… Read more »

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

Reply to bstar

Re: “..[Lou Whitaker has]..likely the best career WAR among guys with no plausible single-season argument for an MVP award” — I made essentially this point in a post last November.

http://www.highheatstats.com/2012/11/the-most-consistently-good-player-ever-part-1/

One measure I used there: Whitaker had at least 3.0 WAR in 15 of his 16 years with 100+ games, but he never reached 7 WAR. I identified 15 others with similar consistency at reaching 3 WAR; all of them had multiple years over 7 WAR.

(And one of these days, I’m going to finish part two of that essay!)

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to John Autin

So that’s why I had that weird feeling that I or someone else had brought this up before. 🙂

JEV

11 years ago

Smoltz, Biggio, Edgar Martinez

T-Bone

11 years ago

Reuschel, Sandberg, Lofton.

Artie Z.

11 years ago

Edgar, Alomar, … why can’t there be a guy whose name sounds like “Poe”?

Oh well, make the third vote Murray.

Editor

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Artie Z.

Save that thought for the 1916 vote, when Preacher Roe shows up. Who knows – Robbie and Edgar may still be on the ballot.

Moe Berg shows up in the 1902 vote.

11 years ago

About a third of the votes (22 ballots) are in according to the sheet and, as predicted, it is a close one, with Trammell leading with 10 votes, followed by Smoltz and Whitaker with 9, and Edgar with 8. Reuschel, Simmons, and Winfield are in danger of falling off and none of the new blood (I thought Cey would get a few votes) have drawn any interest yet. Too bad I’ll be away on vacation (and mostly internet-free) when the results are announced.

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Among the 13 holdovers on the ballot this round, the top four in career WAR according to B-Ref are Whitaker, Grich, Trammell and Reuschel. But the top four in career WAR according to Fangraphs are Smoltz, Murray, Reuschel and Grich. And the top four in career WARP at Baseball Prospectus are Winfield, Murray, Edgar and Biggio. Even carefully considered sabermetric approaches are likely to produce different takes on this group. By the way, in the lists here, I used overall WAR for the hitters and pitching WAR for the pitchers.

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

Smoltzie did have a tiny bit of value as a hitter (3.0 WAR), but it’s not enough to push him past Reuschel for 4th-best bWAR on the ballot because Big Daddy could hit a smidge too (1.9 WAR).

Reuschel bWAR – 70.0
Smoltzie bWAR – 69.5

Kirk

11 years ago

Alomar, Reuschel & Smoltz

Wanted to vote for LaGrow & Soderholm from the South Side Hitmen, but even a Chicago voter can’t stoop that low.

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to Kirk

Eric Soderholm is one of those rare players to become eligible for a COG ballot despite only nine years in the majors. His 21.5 career WAR, despite knee problems that cost him a full season in his prime and ended his career prematurely, make him eligible this round. WAR has him as the third most valuable third baseman in the AL in 1975, behind only Brett and Nettles. He missed all of ’76 and then when he came back in ’77, despite the full year out, was behind only Brett, Nettles and Harrah.

Luis Gomez

11 years ago

Alomar, Whitaker, Edgar.

Special non-counting vote to El Buitre (The Vulture), A.K.A. Señor Smoke.

Brent

11 years ago

Wow, great year for the Big Red Machine (Foster, Concepcion, Geronimo, Nolan and backup Chaney)

Much as I love me some BRM, I will save my votes for Little Joe, Johnny, and Peter Edward later. Today I will stick with middle infielders, Whitaker, Trammell and Alomar

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to Brent

I loved the BRM as well. Concepcion in particular deserves a shout-out.

The quintessential Davey Concepcion play: fielding a grouder deep in the hole then skipping the throw off the turf at Riverfront to a waiting Tony Perez. The skip may have cost him a split second or two in MPH, but it sure looked cool.

I miss the flair and colorful personalities of ’70s baseball.

Lawrence Azrin

11 years ago

– Roberto Alomar
– Bobby Grich
– Lou Whitaker

As #29/INH above said, we still need a second basemen. So, Whitaker for the win, and Alomar and Grich to keep them on the ballot for a while.

Bill Bonham and Eric LaGrow are two players about whom I honestly have to say I have _no_ memories of at all, although I was following MLB very closely at the time (1970-1980). With LaGrow, I don’t even have the excuse that he was in the NL.

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

I remembered Bonham as a Cubbie starter in the 70s. Turns out he and Reuschel were the stalwart starters for Cubs in the mid-70s (along with Ray Burris for a while), post-Ferguson Jenkins. Bonham was a pretty good pitcher with a not-very-good Cubs team. He was credited with 63 losses over the four seasons 1974-77. I believe Phil Niekro is the only pitcher credited with more losses over a four-year period since then. Although Jeremy Guthrie’s put up a pretty good assault on that 63 loss/four season total recently, with 60 losses over both 2008-2011 and 2009-2012. You really do… Read more »

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Lerrin LaGrow was great for the ’77 ChiSox, but his best-known moment came as a Detroit rookie in the ’72 ALCS:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK197210080.shtml

Certainly the only postseason game I can recall where a bat was hurled at a pitcher with savage intent — and it just missed him.

11 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Having become aware of the legend of Pete LaCock thanks to you, the child in me now wishes to note that LaGrow faced LaCock on 7 occasions, issuing only an intentional pass.

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

I’ve decided to go with Trammell, Grich, and Lofton. I think Tram is the best overall player from the holdovers. I think Grich is the best 2B of the bunch, edging out Whitaker, Alomar, Sandberg and Biggio in that order, and as noted above, we need a 2B for our team. I think Lofton had perhaps the most impressive peak, and what the hell, I’m allowed to be a bit of a homer, and I’ve loved Kenny Lofton since I was 6 years old. I don’t think he’ll ever make the COG, but when we’ve completed the exercise, I expect… Read more »

David Horwich

11 years ago

Alomar, Edgar Martinez, Trammell. Tough choices. With the middle infielders clustered in a relatively narrow range of value, distinguishing between them becomes as much a matter of personal preference as anything. I’ve voted for Alomar the last 10 ballots in a row because I like his all-around game, but I could as easily be voting for Sandberg or Biggio. As for Trammell – when in doubt, take the shortstop, is my motto (I voted for Larkin every year he was on the ballot on similar grounds). Edgar Martinez presents a different case. I’d been previously been skeptical that he was… Read more »

mosc

11 years ago

Reply to David Horwich

I’m sorry but there’s a severe lack of Biggio in your post. His 75 OWAR well exceeds Martinez and he did so while surviving second base, not DH. He also stole like 400 more bases. Martinez gets too much credit on here because of these “peak” related numbers. He didn’t produce much outside his peak hence his zero production until age 27 and even his injury time after that aren’t held against him. Purely offensively, there were very few years Martinez was better than the scrappy little (when did 5’11” become little?) all around talent of Biggio. Biggio lead the… Read more »

Author

birtelcom

11 years ago

Reply to mosc

In fairness to Edgar Martinez, the reason Biggio’s oWAR is higher than Edgar’s is that oWAR includes a full positional adjustment. Head to head looking at offense only, Edgar was significantly stronger. Biggio’s best OPS+ seasons in the majors was a 143 OPS+. Edgar’s 8th best OPS+ season in the majors was 152 (actually his ninth-best, but I’m only counting full seasons, not Edgar’s Sept. cuppa coffee in 1987). Edgar’s OPS+ for his whole career is 147, higher than Craig had in his very best season. The adjustment for their respective roles outside pure offense is a much harder question,… Read more »

Nick Pain

11 years ago

Lou Whitaker, Rick Reuschel, Edgar Martinez. Sweet Lou passes Rock Raines as the player I’ve voted for the most.

KalineCountry

11 years ago

Whitaker
Trammell
Grich

NoHomersClub

11 years ago

Reply to KalineCountry

KalineCountry, Detroit’s own Hawk Harrelson. His 1947 ballot will be Whitaker, Trammell, and Joe Coleman.

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Reply to NoHomersClub

While KalineCountry is certainly a huge Tiger fan (I think I even remember him from the ESPN boards, if I’m recalling the right name), he’s not exactly voting for the likes of Bill Tuttle and Bobby Higginson. And he’s hardly the only person who likes voting for Whitaker/Tram as a duo.

Plus, no one deserves being compared to Hawk. That’s just mean. 🙂

KalineCountry

11 years ago

Reply to CursedClevelander

It is me from espn Cursed Clevelander. You and a few on your Indians board were always a pleasure to read all the years over there. 90 plus percent left about 3 years ago, and now those espn message boards have closed.
All they have now is facebook responses.

I don’t know what the problem is here with No Homers Club. Yeah, I’m a Tigers fan, and also a fan of many players from many teams before 1947, my birth year by the way, and players since.

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Reply to KalineCountry

Good to hear that it’s you, I always enjoyed your posts on the ESPN boards.

Yeah, I saw the “Judgment Day” events on ESPN. The boards were a ghost town anyway because of the 2011 format change, but it was sad to see them close down for good. Some older posters had a “Board Memories” topic on that final day, and it was nice to see a lot of old names I remembered (Smarther, Stan Marsh, evanredsoxnave, Jerksticks).

Now they made the Facebook switch and the Comments pages are basically abandoned.

KalineCountry

11 years ago

Reply to KalineCountry

Thanks man, I always felt comfortable going to all the Central teams boards, and the Yankees board. Great posters all around, most of the comfort zone for us had to do with they knew I was there to talk baseball about their/my teams. I never trolled anyone over there, and for nearly 5 years did that Tigers Daily team notes thread. Lots of posters from other teams seemed to like that to. Still do the daily Tigers news at the new board we all went to. One of the last times I went to the Indians board was to lend… Read more »

Gary Bateman

11 years ago

Alomar, Smoltz, Trammell

Mike L

11 years ago

Smoltz, Edgar Martinez, and Sandberg. As a Yankee fan, I hated to see Edgar come up and rip one into the alley. One of the best pure hitters I ever saw, a real artist.
And, a shout out to Doc Medich, who was good with the Yankees, but without whom I would never have had the pleasure of seeing Willie Randolph play.

--bill

11 years ago

Reuschel, Grich, Trammell.

latefortheparty

11 years ago

Lou Whitaker
Alan Trammell
Bobby Grich

michael Sullivan

11 years ago

Trammell, Whitaker because they are still the best of the backlog.

Reuschel because he gets no respect, and he really is as good as the rest of the backlog guys.

RonG

11 years ago

Trammell, Grich, Simmons

GrandyMan

11 years ago

This is the second time I’ve thought I voted but apparently didn’t. Whitaker, Smoltz, and Grich.

mosc

11 years ago

Too many people on the bubble, not protecting anybody. The three best players on this ballot to me are, in order,

Winfield, Smoltz, Biggio

GrandyMan

11 years ago

I’m disappointed to learn that Dave Cash and Don Money were never teammates.

J.R. Lebert

11 years ago

Grich, Biggio, Trammell