Quiz – Sweet Sixteen (solved)

Rather more players included here than in most quizzes. But, there is a reason for that.

These sixteen pitchers are indeed among the “sweetest” of the live ball era. But, the number 16 is also part of the quiz answer, relating to a seasonal accomplishment since 1920 of which only these pitchers can boast.

Player	Player	Player	Player
Dwight Gooden	Sandy Koufax	Tom Seaver	Dean Chance
Ron Guidry	Roger Clemens	Vida Blue	Billy Pierce
Gaylord Perry	Greg Maddux	Luis Tiant	Hal Newhouser
Steve Carlton	Pedro Martinez	Bob Gibson	Carl Hubbell

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 6/19/2013.

Hint #1: there is no significance to the arrangement of the rows or columns

Hint #2: outside of the 5 seasons from 1968 to 1972, only 10 of these pitchers accomplished this feat

Congratulations to –bill ! He correctly identified that only these pitchers have posted a season (min. 200 IP) since 1920 allowing less than one run per 16 batters faced. Some of baseball’s most memorable pitching seasons are represented in the list after the jump.

Rk		R	IP	Year	Age	Tm	G	GS	CG	SHO	W	L	BB	SO	ERA	ERA+	HR	BF
1	Vida Blue	73	312.0	1971	21	OAK	39	39	24	8	24	8	88	301	1.82	183	19	1207
2	Steve Carlton	84	346.1	1972	27	PHI	41	41	30	8	27	10	87	310	1.97	182	17	1351
3	Dean Chance	56	278.1	1964	23	LAA	46	35	15	11	20	9	86	207	1.65	200	7	1093
4	Roger Clemens	65	264.0	1997	34	TOR	34	34	9	3	21	7	68	292	2.05	222	9	1044
5	Roger Clemens	51	211.1	2005	42	HOU	32	32	1	0	13	8	62	185	1.87	226	11	838
6	Bob Gibson	49	304.2	1968	32	STL	34	34	28	13	22	9	62	268	1.12	258	11	1161
7	Dwight Gooden	51	276.2	1985	20	NYM	35	35	16	8	24	4	69	268	1.53	229	13	1065
8	Ron Guidry	61	273.2	1978	27	NYY	35	35	16	9	25	3	72	248	1.74	208	13	1057
9	Carl Hubbell	69	308.2	1933	30	NYG	45	33	22	10	23	12	47	156	1.66	193	6	1206
10	Sandy Koufax	68	311.0	1963	27	LAD	40	40	20	11	25	5	58	306	1.88	159	18	1210
11	Sandy Koufax	49	223.0	1964	28	LAD	29	28	15	7	19	5	53	223	1.74	186	13	870
12	Sandy Koufax	74	323.0	1966	30	LAD	41	41	27	5	27	9	77	317	1.73	190	19	1274
13	Greg Maddux	44	202.0	1994	28	ATL	25	25	10	3	16	6	31	156	1.56	271	4	774
14	Greg Maddux	39	209.2	1995	29	ATL	28	28	10	3	19	2	23	181	1.63	260	8	785
15	Pedro Martinez	44	217.0	2000	28	BOS	29	29	7	4	18	6	32	284	1.74	291	17	817
16	Hal Newhouser	73	313.1	1945	24	DET	40	36	29	8	25	9	110	212	1.81	195	5	1261
17	Gaylord Perry	79	342.2	1972	33	CLE	41	40	29	5	24	16	82	234	1.92	168	17	1345
18	Billy Pierce	50	205.2	1955	28	CHW	33	26	16	6	15	10	64	157	1.97	200	16	836
19	Tom Seaver	61	286.1	1971	26	NYM	36	35	21	4	20	10	61	289	1.76	194	18	1103
20	Luis Tiant	53	258.1	1968	27	CLE	34	32	19	9	21	9	73	264	1.60	186	16	987

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 6/19/2013.

Some quick notes.

Bob Gibson’s famous 1968 season is one of only two in the live-ball era of 300 IP and fewer than 1200 batters faced. The other – Juan Marichal’s 25-6 season in 1966. Similarly, Greg Maddux’s two seasons are two of only three in the live-ball era pitching over 200 innings and facing fewer than 800 batters. Turk Farrell has the other one when he somehow posted only a 14-13 record with 3.02 ERA (105 ERA+) for the woeful 1963 Astros.
More generally, there have been 30 live-ball seasons by 24 pitchers, of 200+ IP averaging fewer than 3.9 batters faced per inning, including Justin Verlander in 2011 and Johan Santana in 2004. Greg Maddux has three of those 30 seasons and Pedro and Koufax each have two. The surprises – Catfish Hunter and Joe Horlen have also each done this twice.
Interesting the similarities between Pedro’s and Billy Pierce’s seasons, with about the same IP and BF. Pierce had a great season with that 1.97 ERA, but still had twice Pedro’s walks and just a bit more than half of his strikeouts.

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Jeff Harris

11 years ago

ERA under 2.00?

Josh

11 years ago

Reply to Jeff Harris

And exactly 16 CGs?

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Jeff Harris

Nothing to do with ERA or CG.

Chad

11 years ago

At least 16 games started in a season allowing 0 or 1 ER?

James

11 years ago

Reply to Chad

This is my guess as well, not sure what else it could be.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Chad

Not related to game starts or earned runs

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

ERA+ above 150, WHIP less than 1?

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

Reply to Insert Name Here

False; Chance, Pierce, and Newhouser never did it. But I feel close…

Chad

11 years ago

Reply to Insert Name Here

16 is part of the answer …

mosc

11 years ago

16+ more wins than losses?

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

Reply to mosc

Tried it; can’t find it for Gaylord Perry.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to mosc

That would also bring in Denny McLain, Lefty Grove, Robin Roberts, Dizzy Dean, etc. who aren’t among our group.

Voomo Zanzibar

11 years ago

At least 16 more wins than shutouts while being undefeated on Sundays.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Suggestion:

It might be easier to focus on the 1968 to 1972 seasons for the six pitchers who achieved this feat during those seasons.
– Of the 16, there are only 6 who played in the 1972 season. Those are your guys.
– Each of those 6 did it just once

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

Based on Doug’s comment @13, the 6 players to focus on are Gaylord Perry, Steve Carlton, Tom Seaver, Vida Blue, Luis Tiant, and Bob Gibson. Important facts about these guys during the interval of 1968-72:
– Blue’s only qualifying season during that time span was his 1971 season
– Tiant had only 3 qualifying seasons during that time span: 1968, 1969, and 1972

I don’t know for sure that these must be qualifying seasons, but I’m assuming so since season accomplishment quizzes usually are so.

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Doug, a bit confused, did it occur 5 times from 1968-1972 or 6 times? If all the guys active in 1972 (Tiant, Seaver, Blue, Perry, Carlton and Gibson) had their season occur in the 1968-1972 period, it seems like we should focus on Tiant, since it would almost have to relate to his 1968 or 1972 season. He didn’t pitch much in 1970 or 1971, and in 1969 all that’s memorable is that he led the league in losses with 20. And it can’t be having 20 losses/leading the league in losses because that doesn’t apply to Gibson, or Perry,… Read more »

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to CursedClevelander

Each of those 6 pitchers did it in only one season in the 1968 to 1972 period.

The feat is not exclusive – it can be accomplished by multiple pitchers in the same season.

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

I just can’t get over the fact that Vida Blue’s 1971 season (which must be his season in the 1968-72 interval, as it is his only qualifying one) has a W-L record of 24-8 and 24 CGs with 8 Shutouts.

24 – 8 = 16

Yet, Doug insists that CG are not involved, and a few guys on this list never had a season of 16 more wins than losses. I struggle to find any other stats from Blue’s 1971 season that relate to the number 16. Hmm…

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Insert Name Here

Something else about that season.

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Maybe I’ll get it later, but I can’t figure it out now.

You don’t happen to be calling back to this post/thread, do you? http://www.highheatstats.com/2012/11/vida-blue-and-1971-attendance-revisited/

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

I thought I was getting close, but no cigar: Game Score seemed like it might have been the key, but if it is, Nolan Ryan, Juan Marichal and Sandy Koufax should also be on this list, and I don’t think Carl Hubbell would be on it.

Of course, maybe I’m not looking at GSc in the right way, but I think I might just be completely on the wrong track.

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

Reply to CursedClevelander

Koufax is on the list… although Ryan and Marichal aren’t.

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Reply to Insert Name Here

You’re right, I missed Koufax on the list. But Doug confirmed that Game Score was a red herring.

Hmm….I’m just scouring Vida’s 1971 game log, since that has to be the key. Looking for any 16 games that seem to meet a common criteria.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to CursedClevelander

Nothing to do with game score.

Voomo Zanzibar

11 years ago

Blue had 16 wins in the first half of the season in 1971
(17, actually)

Voomo Zanzibar

11 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

but that’s not the answer…

Voomo Zanzibar

11 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

Vida was 22-4 on August 20th.

His next two games
18 IP
8 H
2 BB
19 K
2 runs
2 losses.

He also had an 11 inning shutout no-decision with 17 K

--bill

11 years ago

batters faced greater than or equal to 16 times runs?

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Reply to --bill

I think this is it, with the caveat of 200+ IP. Nolan Ryan and Dave Righetti did it and qualified for the ERA title in 1981, but didn’t reach 200 IP because of the strike.

Clayton Kershaw and Clay Buchholz both currently would make this list also, and Kershaw is on pace for over 200 IP.

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Oh, man, again, I thought I had it.

Guess how many starts Vida Blue had in 1971 without giving up a single extra-base hit? Sixteen. On the dot.

But then I looked at the BB-PI, and he and Dean Chance (1964) are the only two with that many starts and XBH = 0 since 1920.

Doug

11 years ago

Bill has the answer.

These are the only pitchers in the live-ball era to have a season (min. 200 PA) allowing less than a run per 16 batters faced. Koufax leads the way with 3 such seasons in a 4 year span.

I’ll update the post with the seasons when I get back toi my computer.

Way to go, Bill!!!

no statistician but

11 years ago

Curiosity led me to look at a dead ball era team, the 1907 Cubs, with it’s rotation of five starters all with sub 1.70 ERAs.

Four of the five, Overall, Brown, Lundgren, and Reulbach passed the “16” test posed by Doug. Only Pfiester—who led the team and league with a 1,15 ERA—failed. He allowed just 25 ERs for the season, but had a whopping 36 runs more charged to him unearned.

After a 3-3 tie in the first game of the WS against the Cobb-Crawford Tigers, the Cubs swept by scores of 3-1, 5-1, 6-1, and 2-0. Some pitching staff.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to no statistician but

Possibly the most enigmatic of those five is Carl Lundgren. He posted a 1.17 ERA (213 ERA+) in 1907 at age 27, indicating he was rounding into his peak form after compiling 116 ERA+ through age 26. By standards of the day he was low mileage, averaging less than 200 IP through his first 6 years and never pitching 250 innings. But, instead of a bright future, Lundgren’s career would number just 143 more innings at a woeful 56 ERA+ level. The clue that the 1907 season might have been a mirage – Lundgren averaged 2.8 BB/9 over his first… Read more »

CursedClevelander

11 years ago

Bob Gibson’s 1968, much like Nolan Ryan’s whole career, is something to me that became so “overrated” that it’s now underrated. Everyone knows about the Mt. Rushmore-sized strike zone, the mound worthy of Tenzig Norgay, etc…and those are important factors to be aware of. But Gibson’s season is still just beyond belief.

Not only does he pass the test of BF > R*16, he would pass it even if the criterion was BF > R*23!

walt

11 years ago

what does “whip: stand for in pitchers stat

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to walt

WHIP = (walks + hits) per inning pitched.