Houston’s all-rookie lineup

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This one gets trotted out every year, so why not now? On September 27, 1963, the Houston Colt .45’s started an all-rookie lineup, all age 21 or under. Here’s their box score, with age (years.days), year in MLB, career game number, and a few notes:

Batting	AB	R	H	RBI	BB	SO	Age (Y.D)	Year	Car. Gm#	Notes
Sonny Jackson SS	3	0	0	0	0	1	19.080	1st	1	1st batter grounded out to him; booted his 3rd chance. First full year was ’66. Played 936 MLB games.
Ernie Fazio 3B	1	1	0	0	1	0	21.245	2nd	113	141 career games.
Joe Morgan 2B	5	0	2	1	0	1	20.008	1st	6	Hit first XBH (triple). First full year was ’65. 2,649 games.
Jim Wynn CF	4	0	2	0	1	0	21.199	1st	68	1,920 games. Went 9-6 in SB first 2 years, then 43-4 in ’65.
Rusty Staub 1B	5	1	2	1	0	1	19.179	1st	148	Most G in a season by a teenager* (150). 2,951 games.
Aaron Pointer RF	5	0	1	0	0	1	21.161	1st	2	1st start, 1st PAs, 1st hit. Next MLB game in ’66. 40 career games.
Brock Davis LF	5	0	1	1	0	1	19.343	1st	34	Made 2 errors in this game. Homered in 25th game, age 19; no more HR in 217 G thru age 28.
Glenn Vaughan 3B-SS	4	0	2	0	0	0	19.223	1st	7	This the only 2-hit game of his 9-game career.
Jerry Grote C	3	0	1	0	0	2	20.356	1st	3	1st hit in this game. In ’64, hit .181 in 325 PAs; worst BA since ’47 (300+ PAs). 2-time All-Star with Mets. 1,421 games.
Dave Adlesh C	1	0	0	0	0	1	20.074	1st	5	Career .168 BA is 8th-worst with 250+ ABs. 106 games.
Jay Dahl P	0	0	0	0	0	0	17.295	1st	1	His only MLB game: 2.2 IP, 7 H, 7 R. Last 17-year-old to appear in a MLB game. Died in a car crash 2 years later.
Danny Coombs P	0	0	0	0	0	0	21.188	1st	1	First 3 batters got hits off him. Had good ’70 in SDP rotation. 144 G.
John Weekly PH	0	0	0	0	1	0	26.105	2nd	47	Hit .363 at AAA that year. 1st MLB hit was a HR. 53 games.
Joe Hoerner P	1	1	0	0	0	0	26.319	1st	1	3 scoreless IP in debut, and scored a run. Didn’t stick until ’66, but had a fine run from then thru ’71: 2.16 ERA, 163 ERA+ in 375 IP.
Mike White PH	1	0	0	0	0	0	24.283	1st	3	Full name Joyner Michael White; son of Joyner Clifford (Jo-Jo) White, Tigers CF of the ’30s. (Only other “Joyner” in MLB is Wally.) 100 G.
Jim Dickson P	0	0	0	0	0	0	25.160	1st	12	Later traded for Eddie Kasko, starting SS of ’61 Reds. 109 games.
Carl Warwick PH	1	0	0	0	0	0	26.212	3rd	367	2nd and last year as a regular. Acquired for Bobby Shantz. 530 G.
Dick Drott P	0	0	0	0	0	0	27.088	7th	176	Last MLB game. #3 in 1957 ROY (15-11, 109 ERA+, age 20). 176 G.
Team Totals	39	3	11	3	3	8

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 3/6/2012.

Houston lost the game, 10-3, to the last-place Mets, who had dropped 12 of their past 13 games.

P.S. Two days later, in the season finale, John Paciorek — older brother of Tom, much-older brother of Jim — had the greatest 1-game career ever, with a line of 3-4-3-3, plus 2 walks.

__________

* Staub’s 150 games in ’63 is a teenage record by true age, not seasonal age. Bob Kennedy played 154 games in 1940 at seasonal age 19, but he turned 20 after 109 games. Staub was 19 the whole season.

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Voomo Zanzibar

12 years ago

Dick Drott’s nickname was Hummer.
___

Jay Dahl – the youngest age for a major leaguer to pass away (19).
Here’s an article about it:
http://www.astroland.net/in%20memory%20of%20jay%20dahl.html
___

Jim Wynn had 63.7 oWAR.
That is 73rd all time, and more than Willie Stargell.
___

Voomo Zanzibar

12 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

Interesting parallel – Wynn’s best season, 1969, is also tied for 73rd all-time in oWAR.
His 9.4 matches
2000 Giambi
1971 Torre
1949 J. Robinson

wlcmlc

12 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

How does Wynn’s 1969 season generate 9.4 of oWar but Stargell’s 1973 season which is substantially better only generate 7.7 of oWar?

How can Wynn have 3 oWar seasons better than Stargell’s best when Stargell clearly has better offensive stats?

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to wlcmlc

My only guess is the super high amount of walks Wynn generated in 1969–148!! That led to an other-worldly .436 OBP, and Stargell didn’t reach .400. Again, just a guess but that’s the number that sticks out. WAR loves high BB/9 rates.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to wlcmlc

Some reasons why Wynn ’69 has more oWAR than Stargell ’73:
(1) League offensive context: The NL averaged 4.05 R/G in ’69, 4.15 in ’73.
(2) Positions: As a CF, Wynn’s “WAR Runs from positional scarcity” were 0, but LF Stargell had -7 runs in that category.
(3) Baserunning: Wynn was a good baserunner (+3 runs), while Stargell was below average (-1).
(4) Believe it or not, Wynn earned +8 runs from the 16 times that he reached on an error, tops in the league. Stargell had just 4 ROE, for 0 runs.

Richard Chester

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

John: This is a good time to bring up my question. Is there anyplace where I could find out precisely how Rbat is calculated? I am not looking for the verbal description but for the actual equations and parameters used for the calculations.

kds

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

(5) Wynn’s home park was the Astrodome. So Stargell (at home in 3 Rivers) would need a lot more runs to generate as many wins as Wynn.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Richard @10 — Sadly, I still cannot find that formula for Rbat. Some of the citations I found mentioned that it was developed by Sean Smith, but in a quick perusal of BaseballProjection.com I could not find anything like a glossary. (I did notice, though, that he’s added HighHeatStats to his list of baseball links, which is kinda cool.)

Richard Chester

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Thanks anyway.

BTW, I noticed that 4 Houston players made their ML debut that day. Is that a record?

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Richard @23 — I was curious about those debuts. But my attempts to find a record via the Game Finder all timed out.

My hunch, FWIW, is that 4 debuts in a game is not a record. But I’d really like to find out if there’s ever been another starting lineup of (a) all 1st-year players, and/or (b) all under age 22.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

More to Richard @23 — The Play Index seems less clogged right now. I found one team game with 6 debuts: – White Sox, 1934 opening day – 1B Zeke Bonura, 3B Joe Chamberlain, OF Frenchy Bordagaray, OF Frenchy Uhalt (I kid you not!), P Lee Stine, P John Pomorski. Bonura and Chamberlain started. And one with 5 debuts: – Athletics, 1954 opening day – CF Vic Power, 2B Spook Jacobs, C Billy Shantz (Bobby’s younger brother), P Ozzie Van Brabant, and P Bill Upton (brother of Tom “Muscles” Upton. There have been 4 Uptons in the major leagues, comprising… Read more »

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

A little off-topic here, John, but could you point me to some sort of primer or a good article one of you may have written that explains how best to extract data from the Play Index? I’m woefully behind on that. My biggest problem seems to be consecutive seasons.

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

I dont need it right now either…..you’re currently busy responding to good comments about your article.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

bstar @31 — Raphy is the sharpest P-I user and explainer I know. Some of his pieces are collected on the old B-R blog archive:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/category/tutorials

I’m also going to send you an email so you can reach me directly if you have a specific question.

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Killer. Thanks a lot.

Doug

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

There have been two games featuring 7 career debuts. Both were in the AL, both on opening day, and in consecutive seasons. Apr 13, 1954: Red Sox at As in last AL home opener in Philadelphia http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/PHA/PHA195404130.shtml – Debuting for Boston: 19 year-old Billy Consolo starting at 2B, and subs Tom Herrin, Karl Olson and Harry Agganiss – Debuting for Philly: starter Vic Power, and subs Bill Upton and Billy Shantz Consolo picked up his first hit, and Upton got his only career save teaming with catcher Shantz, the brother of As starter Bobby Shantz. Apr 11, 1955: Orioles at… Read more »

Richard Chester

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

@40
Wow! I never heard of a pinch-runner for a pinch-runner. Perhaps Ramos was injured.

MikeD

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Frenchy Uhalt? Okay, that goes right toward the top of the list of best names ever.

In fact, wasn’t there another blog asking for submissions for best names ever? I didn’t see Frenchy’s name submitted. It should!

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Doug @40 — I was checking for most debuts for one team in one game. And I found 5 for the Athletics alone in that April 13, 1954 game. (See my comment #28 above.) So, counting Boston’s 4, there were 9 MLB debuts in that game.

Editor

Doug

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

@47.

Right you are, John. Sorry, I missed that we were talking about the same game.

Seems there must be a glitch in P-I. I ran the query again, just to be sure I didn’t screw it up, and it still says 7 guys for both teams.

But, now we know it was 9. An appropriate number, somehow.

Editor

Doug

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Nope. It wasn’t P-I that had the glitch. It was me.

There were only 7 debuts in the Red Sox-As game – 5 As and 2 BoSox (Agganis and Herrin). Consolo and Olson had debuted earlier.

Timmy Pea

12 years ago

“I would be shocked if 10 years from now there’s not a DH in both leagues,” said one influential baseball source.
God I hope not. This was from a story on CNNSI, I won’t link it because it depresses me. I have come to accept the DH in the AL and I like the different game in different parks during inter-league play. I would have to think that all the stats guys would be against DH in both leagues. Curious to hear what others think.

Tmckelv

12 years ago

Reply to Timmy Pea

I was born in 1968 (started following Baseball in 1974) and have always rooted for the Yanks so the DH has always existed during that time. The DH doesn’t bother me, but watching pitchers that are a menace to themselves with the bat or on the base paths does bother me. I like the DH but don’t need for both leagues to have it. If I had to choose, I would say (out of the scenarios that could actually happen): 1) Keep it the way it is 2) DH in both leagues (remember, no one says you HAVE to use… Read more »

Richard Chester

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

One “benefit” would be that there is an extra player available for pinch-hitting duty.

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

The DH has been adopted pretty much everywhere except for the NL. They’re the last holdout against the Borg.

Timmy Pea

12 years ago

Reply to Ed

Good one Ed! I agree a hunner percent!

kds

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

Home team option to choose?

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to kds

Hasn’t the lack of DH in the National League hurt them long-term in interleague play? Not having that roster flexibility, or let alone having that one or two guys that regularly DH and are used to the curious “I’m only batting in this game” thing. Sure, the AL’s pitchers probably aren’t quite as good at hitting and bunting, but I think that effect is lesser than the DH advantage for the AL. All-time AL is 1,937-1773. So, AL is at .522 and NL is at .478. Is this statistically enough to prove my point? I did find a good article… Read more »

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to bstar

IIRC, the AL’s interleague dominance in the last decade or so has held up as well in NL parks (no DH) as in AL parks, after adjusting for normal home-field advantage.

In the last 10 years:
– AL @ NL, 602-655, .479
– AL @ AL, 4576-5502, .454

The AL has simply been a better league, on average, for many years now. That makes it hard to isolate a DH effect from interleague play.

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to bstar

I have seen the stats overall for DH’s for both leagues, I just can’t find them right now. The AL has definitely outperformed the NL at DH, but yeah there are many other factors involved. I guess the AL being better got a tad more lopsided this offseason with Prince and Pujols moving there.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to bstar

bstar @30 — Here are 5-year DH averages (2007-11):

NL – .245/.314/.411/.725
AL – .259/.341/.436/.777

(The AL figure is for all games, not just interleague.)

I’m struck by how unimpressive the AL line is.

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to bstar

The difference in interleague play, IIRC, seemed to be a little bigger than that. I’ll see if I can find it somewhere.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

If they’re going to keep the DH in the AL only, I’d like to see it in use when an AL team visits an NL team during interleague play (instead of the other way ’round).

Timmy Pea

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

I don’t think the fact that pitchers strike out a lot and occasionally look bad on the bases is a big deal. I like the strategy of laying down the bunt and the pitchers that actually can hit give themselves a great advantage. I know the DH isn’t going away, it’s used in college and high school where they don’t even need it.

MikeD

12 years ago

Reply to Timmy Pea

I started watching baseball in the early 70s, fan of an AL team. I never want to see pitchers with a bat in their hands. Ever. That said, I really don’t have a problem with the two leagues having different rules, probably because I grew up in that environment, so it’s the norm. That’s why I find it funny that the media will sometimes refer to those who are against the DH as “traditionalists,” yet tradition is constantly changing. Someone watching AL teams for 40 years views the DH as part of his/her baseball tradition, just as fans of NL… Read more »

Voomo Zanzibar

12 years ago

Reply to MikeD

If the DH is now being used at every level, starting in grade school, it is absurd to ask pitchers to arrive in the bigs and stand in the box. Look at the case of Burnett: 21 PA since 2005 A total of 16 PA in the minors right before he got called up to pitch (and hit) in 1999. Don’t know if he hit at Central Arkansas Christian. Great athlete? Of course. That doesn’t mean that he is prepared to step in against the best pitchers on the planet. And not only step in, but turn and square his… Read more »

MikeD

12 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

Right. That just compounds the problem. Pitchers are not only good athletes, they are usually the best athletes on the teams growing up. That eventually changes as they move to more challenging leagues, either staying at pitcher or becoming a position player. Yet it’s still not entirely uncommon for a player to be drafted by MLB teams showing skills as as a pitcher and a position player (Casey Kelly one recent example), but their MLB teams will make a determination on where their skills fit best. The point is that no matter when it happens, eventually players become either position… Read more »

12 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

I give you Josh Tomlin. 2-2 so far as a hitter despite having no at bats in the minors and probably none in college either.

Doug

12 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

Lack of preparation doesn’t seem to have hurt Zach Britton of the Orioles.

8 big-league PAs, 5 hits including a double, a HR and 2 RBI. Has played 3 games in his career (all inter-league), and has one or more hits in each one.

Voomo Zanzibar

12 years ago

Reply to Doug

Maybe this is the secret of Britton’s success:

During his only year at Canyon High School,[2] he spent two days in intensive care when he sustained fractures of the skull and clavicle and bleeding in the brain as a result of diving headfirst into concrete while attempting to catch a foul popup during baseball practice with the freshman squad.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Doug

Video of Britton’s HR is still up on MLB.com:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16548381

Doug

12 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

I’m surprised to learn that, just since 1990, pitchers have had no fewer than 70 hitting streaks of 5 games or more (counting only games with an AB).

Livan Hernandez and Mike Hampton each have 4 such streaks, and Carlos Zambrano, Dontrelle Willis and Doug Drabek all have 3. Zambrano has the longest streak in this period – 13 games with 3 HR, 10 RBI, 1.265 OPS. Heck, even Roy Halladay has one of these streaks (5 singles).

Timmy Pea

12 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

I think the Burnett deal was a fluke. Yes pitchers strike out a lot and often look stupid at the plate, but I’d challenge you to come up with some numbers that say pitchers get hurt at the plate more than hitters because they don’t get enough practice. Zambrano hurt himself legging out a bunt a few years ago, and everyone was all up in arms about how he hustles too much. But Z springs off that mound many times during a game with the same risk of pulling a muscle.

Timmy Pea

12 years ago

Reply to Timmy Pea

I would like to spill bourbon on the Fox and Friends hostess. If I was sitting next to her I would order a Jack neat and lean over like I was listening to her and then I’d spill on her lap. I wouldn’t touch her like I was mopping it up even though with most non-celebrity aging babes in town I do. Just the thought of premium bourbon or scotch soaking her clothes makes me happy, if you know what I mean.

oneblankspace

12 years ago

Reply to Timmy Pea

Currently in the minor leagues, if either team is an affiliate of an AL team, the DH is used. I suspect that twist may come to the majors soon. The NL lost Fielder and Pujols to the AL this offseason; some have suggested it was so they could finish their careers as DHs. In the case of Hank Aaron, 201 of his 222 games with the Brewers (and all 22 of his HR) were as a DH. Of all the professional adult leagues in the world, only the NL and one of the Japanese leagues does not use a DH.… Read more »

Paul E

12 years ago

As I have proudly stated many times before, I attended the game at Connie Mack Stadium when Astros’ catcher Dave Adlesh slugged his sole ML homer. Went with the local little league…on another little league trip, saw 3 HR’s by Braves’ catcher Bob Tillman. I guess it was career day when we attended 🙂

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Paul E

Career day, indeed! Being at Tillman’s 3-HR game means that you also saw: – Hank Aaron’s 537th HR, breaking the tie with Mantle for #3 all-time. – Career-worst 5 HRs allowed by Grant Jackson, who allowed just 16 HRs in 253 IP that year. (One more would have tied the modern game record.) – Cecil Upshaw’s 20th save of the season, the only 20-save year by a Brave before 1978. And if you stayed for the 2nd game of the doubleheader, you saw Johnny Callison and Dick Allen hit back-to-back HRs in the 8th to rally the Phils to victory.… Read more »

Paul E

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

JA: I might have one better than that….I can recall as an eight year old in 1966 Byrum Saam calling Henry Aaron’s #400 off Bo Belinsky (his second of the game on 4/20/66). His first of the game was also his first of the season and it came off Ray Culp in the top of the 1st inning. Oddly enough, this first homer of the season represented back – to -back homers by Aaron off Culp as he had hit #398 of his career off Culp on 9/20/65. That Aaron was a pretty fair hitter. Still, the most impressive performance… Read more »

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Paul E

Wow, Paul — I must have heard of that game before, but the details escaped me. Wise allowed 3 runs and 2 HRs (including the career 1st by Pat Bourque) to the first 7 batters, before reeling off 32 straight outs.

Then, in the 12th, when the Phils got a man to 3rd with 1 out (on a sac bunt by Luzinski – the only one of his career!), the Cubs intentionally loaded the bases to bring up Wise — who won the game with his 3rd hit.

P.S. The opposing SP … Milt Pappas.

Tmckelv

12 years ago

With Wynn, Staub, Grote, and Morgan, that is a nice core. The 1971 Astros team was really on the cusp of something great. They should have held onto Staub at 1B and not traded Joe Morgan. The rest of the lienup was solid – Roger Metzger, Doug Rader, Bob Watson, Cesar Cedeno, Jimmy Wynn and Johnny Edwards (not sure if Grote would have helped, but they did give him to the Mets for nothing). The pitching was coming around too, with Don Wilson, Ken Forsch, Larry Dierker, and a 21-year old J.R. Richard. Note: in my scenario above, the Astros… Read more »

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

They also had Cesar Geronimo (who they included in the Morgan trade to the Reds) and John Mayberry (who they gave away to the Royals).

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Ed

Outfield defensive runs saved, 1973-75 combined:
60 – Cesar Geronimo
52 – Bill North
46 – Paul Blair, Dwight Evans
34 – Jim Wynn
30 – Rick Miller
28 – Pete Rose

Rose was only an OF in ’73-74, earning 2.0 dWAR each year. Change the 3-year period to 1972-74, and Rose is tied with Blair for #1.

Tmckelv

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

John,

That adds a new wrinkle to the “Not trading Joe Morgan” scenario as Perez/Driessan my have stayed at 3rd (with Lee May @ 1B) and Pete would have stayed in the OF.

Lawrence Azrin

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

I dunno, Perez was frequently replaced at third for a defensive replacement late in games his last several seasons (1970, 1971) as the regular third baseman, so I think the move to first was inevitable.

Check out 1971:
3B: 148 games started, but only 86 complete games (62 games removed from 3B)
1B: 44 games, but only 9 started (all completed)

It’s pretty obvious that he was frequently being moved from third to first, or being pulled from third for a defensive replacement, in late innings.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

Lawrence @70 — That’s good data, but I get a different picture from a deeper look at those 1971 defensive stats: – Perez started 148 out of 162 games at 3B, or 89%. – He handled 1,222 out of Cincy’s 1,444 defensive innings at 3B. That’s 85%. – So, in the 62 games that he started but didn’t finish at 3B, he only missed about 61 defensive innings. – The man who absorbed most of those innings was Woody Woodward. He otherwise shared the SS job with young Dave Concepcion, who also subbed in at 3B in 7 games. I… Read more »

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

Your last question, Tmckelv, is the most important. Sadly, I still somehow say yes.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

Interesting that, before 1971, Morgan consistently hit better in the Astrodome than on the road. His home/road OPS:

– 1965, .835/.748
– 1966, .836/.762
– 1967, .868/.708
– 1968, out
– 1969, .796/.681
– 1970, .818/.743
– 1971, .687/.817

His career numbers in the Astrodome — .276/.404/.411/.815 — are nearly the same as his overall numbers (.271/.392/.427/.819).

Meanwhile, little Joe didn’t hit a lick in Cincinnati until Riverfront Stadium opened. His career line in 29 G at Crosley Field was .188/.320/.230/.550, with 1 HR, 4 RBI and 6 Runs.

Finally, his career grass/turf OPS was .772/.855.

Paul E

12 years ago

Reply to Tmckelv

Pat Gillick made a career of NOT making trades like that and took it to the Hall of Fame. He may have developed great farm systems and scouting, but he sure didn’t appear to want to go out on a limb to make trades

I believe the 1972 Astros moved Wynn to RF and the entire team had a good year offensively and ended up .500 – which was light years of improvement over the first ten years of the franchise

Doug

12 years ago

“In ’64, [Jerry Grote] hit .181 in 325 PAs; worst BA since ’47”

Must have started a fad. Worse BAs than that in 300+ PAs occurred 11 times in 11 years (1967-77), including such notables as:

– Clay Dalrymple, 1967
– Elston Howard, 1967
– George Scott, 1968
– Al Weis, 1968
– Dal Maxvill, 1969
– Dave Roberts, 1974
– Deron Johnson, 1974
– Bud Harrelson, 1977

TheGoof

12 years ago

Remember this game?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN199909110.shtml
Check out that lineup! No wonder he no-no’d them.
DaVanon’s second career game. One of 12 career games for Hemphill. Rookie Durrington. A batch of no-names and just one real regular in his first full season.

Hartvig

12 years ago

Reply to TheGoof

I watched Todd Greene take batting practice before a game in Milwaukee in what must have been 1999, because Mo Vaughn was also playing. I don’t recall ever seeing a player make contact like that. Almost every time he made contact it was an absolute laser beam and about half of them made it into the stands. I have to admit that I’ve only seen major league teams take most of their batting practice maybe a dozen times or so but I’ve seen it in the minors more times than I can count plus several of the All-Star game home… Read more »

Paul E

12 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

H-vig:
….or maybe even the next Brian Harper. Both of them raked in the minors and, if I remember correctly, both were Angels draftees. I fremember seeing old issues of the Sporting News and being amazed at the ridiculous numbers guys would put up in the Texas League….

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Paul E

Brian Harper tangent: In 1981 in the PCL, at age 21, Harper hit .350 (4th in the league) with 28 HRs (3rd), 122 RBI (2nd) and 339 total bases (1st). He went 3-for-11 in a September trial.

That fall, the Angels traded him to Pittsburgh straight-up for a 31-year-old Tim Foli — a career .251 hitter with no power, no walks, no speed, no gold gloves….

As it turned out, Harper didn’t get established as a MLB hitter for another 6 years. But from that 1981 vantage point, the Angels must have been really down on his defense.

Hartvig

12 years ago

Reply to Paul E

I thought for a brief moment that I had probably seen Harper play when he was with the Quad Cities but that was a couple years before I had moved there. I did see him a few times when he was with the Twins. For reasons I cannot explain, the teams catcher is almost always my favorite minor league player. I’ve seen a few that I thought were good enough to make it someday but for one reason or another none have ever had more than a cup of coffee. I’m sure I’ve seen a few catchers from visiting teams… Read more »

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

On a tangent … The recent news that Lenny Dykstra was sentenced to 3 months in prison reminded me of another 49-year-old.

Dykstra debuted in 1985. Jamie Moyer, 4 months older than Dykstra, made his MLB debut the next year.

Dykstra played 12 years in the majors, a pretty long career. When he last played, Moyer’s career record was 72-79. Moyer has gone 195-125 since Dykstra’s last game.

Hartvig

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Any word on how Moyer is doing in the Rockies camp?

His ERA in his last year in Philadelphia was pretty lousy but he still managed a WHIP of 1.101 as a 47 year old which would have been good for 7th in the NL if he had met the innings pitched requirement.

MikeD

12 years ago

The trio of Morgan, Wynn and Staub was quite a solid foundation. Wynn never did quite escape the AstroDome until near the end of his career, with only a couple of solid seasons left in him. I clicked on Staub’s B-R page for a quick review, and two things occurred to me. Perhaps they had in the past and I forgotten. First, I immediately thought of Harold Baines, so it wasn’t too surprising when I clicked to the bottom of the page and noticed Baines was #3 on Staub’s similarity score. Yet I have heard some people argue for Baines… Read more »

Ingrid's Angel

12 years ago

Pardon me for being a bit late to the party (and for reading for all these years, but not posting), but had to chime in, as I often wind up thinking about this game – and it was played nearly 12 years before I was born. It’s easy to look at the box score and focus on some of the more notable names in the lineup. There’s guys like Jimmy Wynn and Rusty Staub, members of the Hall Of Very Good. There’s guys like Sonny Jackson, who had long careers. Of course, there is Joe Morgan. And we certainly can’t… Read more »

Hartvig

12 years ago

Reply to Ingrid's Angel

Great story.

And the Pointers Sisters connection was news to me as well.

Learn something new every day.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Ingrid's Angel

Wow, Ingrid’s Angel — so, where have you been writing? Surely you’ve not been hiding your light under a bushel!

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Ingrid's Angel

And now the Aaron Pointer “Bullpen” page on B-R is a must-read.

Lawrence Azrin

12 years ago

#71/John A.,
I might agree with you somewhat if Perez played third base regularly after 1971, but he NEVER played third base again, ever. Rightly or wrongly, management collectively decided that Tony Perez wasn’t good enough to play third base, and 1971 was the last stop on the transition to first base.

Author

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Lawrence, you’re probably right. Even though there was no obvious reason for the Reds to want to move Perez off 3B after 1971 — his ’71 fielding pct. was #2 out of 7 NL players with 100+ G at 3B, his range factor was #1, his DPs were #3, and they had no great 3B prospects coming through their system — a review of the literature available online does indicate that management viewed Perez as a defensive liability. It’s funny, though. In ’71, the Reds were above average in 3B defense by every known metric. In ’72, with Perez moved… Read more »